Your insight please?

[GrayMatterWife]

One thing worth noting -- I don't even know that the blogger *knows* (or knew) that this link was posted here. One of our newer members came across the blog and posted the link, asking for opinions. I think she got those ... in spades.

You post a blog publicly, you open yourself up to judgments--both good and bad. Open your mouth, assume the risk. Surely she had to realize that.

I hope she joins us. She's one of us. For all we know, she's one of the newbies here.

[diggitydot]

I think there's a whole lot of projecting of people's own baggage, here -- on both sides of the issue.

Would people have been a little kinder with their wording if this was someone we knew? Probably. But that doesnt mean that those opinions would be different, maybe just a tad more tactful.

[PrincessFiona]

Your insight please?

So we would be kinder to someone if we knew them even though our feelings don't change? Hmmm.


Abigail. I hope life takes you where you want it to and that you continue to have the peace you project long into the future. I sincerely wish it for you. This is a long hard road and many spouses make temporary sacrifices to move for training that become extended sacrifices. I know many women here with incredible talent who chose to lie those talents aside temporarily for the greater good of training who are still ... Waiting in the wings to be able to use their gifts again. Each person's journey is unique. May the force be with you.

[diggitydot]

I didn't say they'd BE kinder, but that their wording might be. And yeah, people tend to be more gentle to those they know than those they don't.

One thing worth noting -- I don't even know that the blogger *knows* (or knew) that this link was posted here. One of our newer members came across the blog and posted the link, asking for opinions. I think she got those ... in spades.

Ahem... yes. That would be me. I don't even know what to say anymore! This thread took on a life of its own, but I am seriously so grateful for all of the thoughts that have been shared. Every single one of them has been helpful to me. *Dreaming* of the light at the end of the tunnel is something I do regularly, but I also try to keep it in perspective. Things are hard financially right now, but the time DH gets to spend with me and the kids is a lot better now than it likely will be in a few years.

I feel bad if the blogger did happen upon this thread and got her feelings hurt. I really had no idea that so much would be said, but I think that if I were that blogger, I would really love to read this thread and find all the answers I was seeking from so many people "in the know."

Thank you all again. Your openness and honesty are wonderful.

[GrayMatterWife]

So we would be kinder to someone if we knew them even though our feelings don't change? Hmmm.


Abigail. I hope life takes you where you want it to and that you continue to have the peace you project long into the future. I sincerely wish it for you. This is a long hard road and many spouses make temporary sacrifices to move for training that become extended sacrifices. I know many women here with incredible talent who chose to lie those talents aside temporarily for the greater good of training who are still ... Waiting in the wings to be able to use their gifts again. Each person's journey is unique. May the force be with you.

I tried to be honest in my response. I was making an argument, not building her self-esteem.

Thank you for the best wishes. I wish the same for everyone. I fully recognize how lucky I am and that many people have not had the same experience. I understand sacrificing. I have made many sacrifices, including giving up a huge salary, a promising career at a prominent law firm, and professional connections, to essentially start over. I understand the sense of loss. I offered to share my experience (and how I came to terms with it) knowing that it would piss off a lot of people who think that I do not understand their pain because I have a sense of peace about what happened on my journey. I ran the risk because I thought it was a perspective that had not been shared previously. I don't talk about it a lot anymore, frankly, because people in pain don't like to hear that other similarly situated people are not in the same pain, and I did not want someone to get turned off to sharing about their pain under the impression that it might be misunderstood. However, the blogger was not a poster here, or at least nothing in the presentation of the issue or the OP's question suggested such. I felt freer to share about my personal experience because the pain was slightly more removed--it wasn't first-hand.

But, to be honest, I do feel at times that I should be less open about the fact that I am not fundamentally unhappy and angry (although, like everyone, at times I get VERY frustrated and massively disappointed). I get the impression that sometimes folks may see me as not "one of the group" or that I am implying judgment by sharing that I had a different experience. In many ways, I've given up sharing this part of my life.

[DCJenn]

My husband's skill set for his job is unique and different and I hope he's happy with his financial and emotional compensation for the use of those skills. Personally I think 7 years of training is stupid but it's not my job.

Everyone here has made sacrifices for their family. We wouldn't be here otherwise. This is not an easy mistress to live with, even in (or maybe especially in) attendinghood. We all end up where we are based on choices that we've had to make based on someone else's career. Think about that. Because we happened to marry/date/live with/partner with a person who decided at some point to be a doctor, ALL of our life choices are impacted. It's how you make peace with that fact that can make or break you. It's not the choice of number of kids or when or if to have them or whether to work or to stay at home or to move or any ONE decision- it's ALL of them. None of us would be living where we are, doing whatever it is that we do 24/7 without someone else's job dictacting how it all happens.

It's complete insanity. Sure other careers require spousal sacrifice. But not for decades and not with the absolute certainty of a huge negative AND and huge positive impact on the family.

That's why this is such an emotionally laden issue because we all relive all of the choices we've made. Few of us would change the decisions we've made but that doesn't mean that there's not a lingering 'what if' for most of us.

Jenn

[PrincessFiona]

But, to be honest, I do feel at times that I should be less open about the fact that I am not fundamentally unhappy and angry (although, like everyone, at times I get VERY frustrated and massively disappointed). I get the impression that sometimes folks may see me as not "one of the group" or that I am implying judgment by sharing that I had a different experience. In many ways, I've given up sharing this part of my life.

Well ... you shouldn't feel that way. I think most people here also have made these choices but are not .... fundamentally unhappy and angry most of the time.

I'm sorry if I came across that way while trying to make my point....Frankly, I try to steer clear of sharing when I feel unhappy or unwell in any way because of the tough love mentality around here much of the time....so...an opposite reason. I feel it is an opposite exclusion: share your unhappiness and risk the booty slappin'. Personally, I'm not fundamentally unhappy...most people that known me IRL see me as fairly balanced and fun to be around. Most of the time, I am. That being said, I have times where I do feel sad about things or consider opportunities missed, etc. I know how hard it was for me to gradually let go of certain dreams that I had for myself and so I am protective of others who are going through that unhappiness. Even though I have let go of much (but not all) of that, I know how raw it is ...I feel a gut need to swoop down and take care of someone struggling...not turn them over my knee and tell them to find God or be peaceful or act like their unhappiness is a personality flaw. (I'm not implying that you have done this, btw.) I don't think there is anything wrong with not feeling frustrated and ... I don't think there is anything wrong with feeling frustrated.

As for me ... yes, I do feel disappointment sometimes for opportunities lost ... but I would argue that I am generally at peace with things and I have plan to tackle the things I don't feel peaceful about. I am, currently battling nearly a week solid of facial pain and medication for that and so perhaps I should have just continued staying away altogether .... because clearly I have lost my inner editor.

Kris

[peggyfromwastate]

My husband's skill set for his job is unique and different and I hope he's happy with his financial and emotional compensation for the use of those skills. Personally I think 7 years of training is stupid but it's not my job.

LMAO!! I love you Jenn

[PrincessFiona]

F*ing Awesome post, Jenn. One of the best posts EVER!

My husband's skill set for his job is unique and different and I hope he's happy with his financial and emotional compensation for the use of those skills. Personally I think 7 years of training is stupid but it's not my job.

Everyone here has made sacrifices for their family. We wouldn't be here otherwise. This is not an easy mistress to live with, even in (or maybe especially in) attendinghood. We all end up where we are based on choices that we've had to make based on someone else's career. Think about that. Because we happened to marry/date/live with/partner with a person who decided at some point to be a doctor, ALL of our life choices are impacted. It's how you make peace with that fact that can make or break you. It's not the choice of number of kids or when or if to have them or whether to work or to stay at home or to move or any ONE decision- it's ALL of them. None of us would be living where we are, doing whatever it is that we do 24/7 without someone else's job dictacting how it all happens.

It's complete insanity. Sure other careers require spousal sacrifice. But not for decades and not with the absolute certainty of a huge negative AND and huge positive impact on the family.

That's why this is such an emotionally laden issue because we all relive all of the choices we've made. Few of us would change the decisions we've made but that doesn't mean that there's not a lingering 'what if' for most of us.

Jenn

[GrayMatterWife]

Well ... you shouldn't feel that way. I think most people here also have made these choices but are not .... fundamentally unhappy and angry most of the time.

I'm sorry if I came across that way while trying to make my point....Frankly, I try to steer clear of sharing when I feel unhappy or unwell in any way because of the tough love mentality around here much of the time....so...an opposite reason. I feel it is an opposite exclusion: share your unhappiness and risk the booty slappin'. Personally, I'm not fundamentally unhappy...most people that known me IRL see me as fairly balanced and fun to be around. Most of the time, I am. That being said, I have times where I do feel sad about things or consider opportunities missed, etc. I know how hard it was for me to gradually let go of certain dreams that I had for myself and so I am protective of others who are going through that unhappiness. Even though I have let go of much (but not all) of that, I know how raw it is ...I feel a gut need to swoop down and take care of someone struggling...not turn them over my knee and tell them to find God or be peaceful or act like their unhappiness is a personality flaw. (I'm not implying that you have done this, btw.) I don't think there is anything wrong with not feeling frustrated and ... I don't think there is anything wrong with feeling frustrated.

As for me ... yes, I do feel disappointment sometimes for opportunities lost ... but I would argue that I am generally at peace with things and I have plan to tackle the things I don't feel peaceful about. I am, currently battling nearly a week solid of facial pain and medication for that and so perhaps I should have just continued staying away altogether .... because clearly I have lost my inner editor.

Kris

To be clear: I was not telling anyone to "find God." Just to be clear--you did say that I hadn't done this, but I really want to make sure that it is understood that I did NOT mean that. At all. I was just sharing an intimate part of my life that cannot be explained without offering background into my personal beliefs. And I also don't think that "knowing God" or being spiritual will necessarily lead to the sense of peace I have. In fact, it could lead to the opposite. It's just been my journey.

Also, if it was inferred, I just want to clarify: I didn't mean to imply in my response that you personally are deeply unhappy. Actually, FWIW, you don't seem to me to be that way at all. I got the impression you were just trying to protect those people who really are unhappy, to make sure that they did not feel driven away by the likes of my post.

Look, I know my post is the one that people are primarily referring to. It seemed mean; it was unkind; it irked; I failed to give the benefit of the doubt. The first two points don't really bother me, except to the degree I may have violated an unspoken protocol regarding non-Debate Forum threads; the third I can't control; and the fourth I don't feel I had to extend. But, that aside, in reflection, I made a mistake that I have made in the past: I've constructed arguments in a non-Debates Forum thread. I should not have posted it. The OP may have been looking for honesty, but in the non-Debates Forum thread, that honesty should have been couched in less antagonistic terms. I know there are people who never participate in the Debates Forum because of people like me (a fact, which I hate, BTW. It has been my experience that the quiet ones often have the best arguments). They do not enjoy that kind of raw argument (hey, there are days when I don't participate in the Debates Forum because even I'm not up for that stuff!). So, I should be more careful about being adversarial in my expression of an argument outside the Debates Forum. That seems like a fair expectation.

Honestly, this is what I do for a living. I deconstruct arguments and explain why people are clueless, wrong, misguided, or wonderfully on-point. I make judgments and arguments all.day.long. Picking a side and advocating for it is like breathing for me--rote, constant, and practiced. It makes me insensitive at times to contexts in which my style is unappreciated.

[madeintaiwan]

But, to be honest, I do feel at times that I should be less open about the fact that I am not fundamentally unhappy and angry (although, like everyone, at times I get VERY frustrated and massively disappointed). I get the impression that sometimes folks may see me as not "one of the group" or that I am implying judgment by sharing that I had a different experience. In many ways, I've given up sharing this part of my life.

I have followed this thread but have stayed out of this, but Abigail, I wanted to let you know that I know how you feel. While residency is EXHAUSTING and I've sacrificed A LOT for the sake of medicine, it's just not my personality to be out there unhappy and complaining about things. I feel we all make choices. Life sucks at times, but if I was truly unhappy and done with sacrificing, I could leave. I would. I could go back home with the kids, start over. Would there be some suckage? Sure, but if I am truly miserable in my current state, anything has got to be better. I stay. And if I'm going stay, I'm going to make the most of it and enjoy what I can. Complain, vent, cry, but I don't believe in letting unhappiness spill all over your life. Things happen, but you control the effects on your life.

I personally don't dream of big houses, cars, or shopping. I don't wonder if I will be comfortable living on alimony and child support after I divorce my dawkter hubby. IMO, that was a weird question that the blogger asked. I just want to be closer to my family. Share holidays and birthdays with them. DH has wanted to be an orthopedic surgeon ever since he was a little boy spending nights in the hospital day care and building things and playing with power tools. It has never been about the money. We don't have visions of piles of cash at the end of the tunnel. If he didn't get into medical school, he would have happily gone into construction. Post high school education is a choice and a privilege. The schooling and training sucks, but no one forces you down this path. And when this training crap is over, we will be financially better off than 90% of our family. Even with the loans and the cuts in medicine. My father has been unemployed for months and they still have two children to raise. There isn't going to be a day where one day he makes 40k a year and then the next he makes 250k.

I'm rambling now... I just wanted Abigail to know that she wasn't alone. That said, everyone deals in their own way. There is no right or wrong way. We are who we are. And we cope however we cope.

[GrayMatterWife]

I just wanted Abigail to know that she wasn't alone. That said, everyone deals in their own way. There is no right or wrong way. We are who we are. And we cope however we cope.

Thanks. I do feel alone at times on this point, but as Kris said, she feels equally alone at times (and those would be the times when she most likely would need the most support). I think you hit the nail on the head: there is no right or wrong way. If one way isn't working for you, you could try something else. Vent, smile, pray, spit, whatever works for you ultimately. Just not despair.

[SuzySunshine]

I think both GMW and madeintaiwan bring up a great point there is no right way or wrong way to go about this journey and if that means dreaming of fortunes on the other side then go for it

I'm not sure who said it but I also agree that some of the comments were probably more harsh because the assumptions came from another medical spouse, someone who should know we are all tired of fighting those stereotypes.

I'm working on my faith, even though I grew up catholic I don't feel like I have that strong relationship and I'm working on trying to find it because I see so many friends at peace with this journey because of their faith. At the same time I know I can be Ms Optimistic one day and Ms Pessimistic the next. I also know that if I ever thought of leaving DH would make some changes without question but its also not a threat I'd ever use unless it really became unbearable. I dream about what is on the other side but most of that will always be just that, dreams, but I know that our family will be more comfortable then I was as a kid and I know that the last month has made DH realize how he doesn't want to work like a dog for the rest of his life. Maybe this "evil" chief year is the best thing that could have happened to him.

[Chrisada]

Just wanted to add that I have been able to have peace with this journey with no faith in a higher being. Trying to stay out of this thread, but just wanted to mention that.