Holy moly, this is so sad.

[v-girl]

It makes the idea of homeschooling through high school (I only plan to go to 8th grade) very tempting.

[PrincessFiona]

I think Jenn is right that social media adds an extra layer. I have thought about this and facebook etc is such an important part of kids lives. It used to be that once you left school you were safe for the most part. Email, FB etc have made kids 24/7 targets.

[PrincessFiona]

On this topic, what bothersme about how the schools deal with it is by social training/bullying awareness courses for kids. This puts the responsibility on victims and bystanders. The most effective tool, IMO is the response of adults (much like discipline in the home). The responses that we have seen in regards to bullying have been completely lackluster. They teach kids to ignore it and tell an adult but the adults don't take action for fear if offending parents and sometimes out of a desire to remain popular with offending students.

[HouseofWool]

On this topic, what bothersme about how the schools deal with it is by social training/bullying awareness courses for kids. This puts the responsibility on victims and bystanders. The most effective tool, IMO is the response of adults (much like discipline in the home). The responses that we have seen in regards to bullying have been completely lackluster. They teach kids to ignore it and tell an adult but the adults don't take action for fear if offending parents and sometimes out of a desire to remain popular with offending students.

Kris - I don't know if apathy on the part of the teachers is always the case. My parents have a 14 yo special needs boy as their foster son. He is of average intelligence but his ADHD is so severe that combined with the horrific neglect and abuse he suffered as a small child, he is socially stunted (this is a VAST understatement, it is so sad). Right now he is on the football team and is being teased by other boys who are well known to the coach as bullies. The problem is that the coach cannot catch the brats in the act. He knows what is happening (everything from physical hazing to stealing his jersey or the laces for his pants) yet everytime he is close to catching them, they stop. They have the social skills to know when trouble is coming and to stop the offending behavior.

This particular teacher has taken him under his wing and is trying to help him as much as possible. The flip side, though, is that the administration is beyong pathetic. Isaac does not have the ability to read cues. The bullies antagonize him to the breaking point and then he lashes out. The pity is that they other kids seem to have figured out how to maximize the damage by timing their attacks so Isaac will react just as a teacher is rounding a corner. They act innocent and I gets in trouble. Even when there is video footage, it doesn't seem to matter.

I worry about this with Caleb. I think he will float along and not be overly targeted, but I still think about it.

[Thirteen]

So, the ultimate problem is that parents are not instilling a sense of ethics, responsibility, integrity, and personal courage in their own children. Not surprising in the least. Without these essential life skills you're going to find gangs of bullies thriving. Perhaps what the reporters who are writing up these stories on places where bullying is concentrated need to do is start examining the parents. Obviously the adult culture is not feeding into good or even adequate parenting skills.

Another thought: Perhaps instead of having special courses for kids on bullying, all parents of children enrolled in educational institutions need to be required to attend seminars and/or classes on their responsibilities with bullying (ie how to spot bullying, how to prevent their children from becoming bullies, effective behavioral strategies for stopping already existing bullying behavior with their own children). And, perhaps there is quite a bit of denial going on with the parents of these bullies? Maybe there need to be parental consequences when a child is involved in bullying at school?

I completely agree. Demeaning, isolating and targeting a person is bullying. I'm finding a lot of new parenting info that's putting the responsibility back into the parent's court. Mainly, how you deal with these issues in your home greatly determines how a child values and interacts with his or her peers. In the case of bullying, there's often an underlying issue in the home (so says my Lifespan Dev. Psych professor) that is not being addressed by the parents, so the child gets away with it and acts out in school. I think parental consequences for a child's actions could be a big turning point for realizing how severe this issue is.

[HouseofWool]

Adrianne - this presumes that the kids are not sociopaths. I am seeing more and more that the parents set reasonable limits and enforce them and the kids continue to flaunt authority. It sucks.

[Sheherezade]

I think they don't spend enough time with adults. It leads to a Lord of the Flies atmosphere. The kids that seem to be the biggest bullies here have the most freedom -- as in they spend little time with family/teachers/adult settings and more time with peers. They are KIDS. They don't know what proper behavior is until it is modeled over and over and over.

[GrayMatterWife]

We have adults being paid to yell and bully each other under the guise of being political pundits or media personalities (Glenn Beck, O'Reilly, Dr Laura, and Rush come to mind).

Glen Beck and Rush are responsible for a bullying culture? It's interesting: anytime a conservative speaks their mind, they are a bully. Anytime Obama threatens "hand to hand combat" if he doesn't get his way in the upcoming election, or when he threatens and bullies bondholders of GM and abuses federal bankruptcy law to do it, or when he uses the Presidential Office to (wrongly and prematurely) criticize a police officer, or when he condescends to all of us peons with "teachable moments" of moral superiority, or when he calls his opponents all sorts of names...he's just bringing hope and change. Chicago style. I don't blame politicians and political talking bobbleheads for high school bullying, though. Any more than I blame Rachel Maddow, Keith Olberman, or AirAmerica for the collapse of intellectual critical thought and the rise of shrewish screeching.

I thought the bullying story was absolutely heartbreaking. It was all over the news yesterday. As someone who was badly harassed, both physically and verbally, in high school and ultimately had to change schools, I sympathize. Although, back in my day, at least it was 24/7 on the web. If I were the parent of a bully, I think I would be absolutely devastated. To know that I had failed as a parent to teach compassion and character. Nothing else I do matters if I fail on such a basic level with my children.

The kids that seem to be the biggest bullies here have the most freedom -- as in they spend little time with family/teachers/adult settings and more time with peers. They are KIDS. They don't know what proper behavior is until it is modeled over and over and over.

YES. THIS. It is one of the principle reasons I am seriously considering quitting work when my oldest enters late elementary/middle school. Kids need SUPERVISION and they need to see constant modeling.

[houseelf]

I think they don't spend enough time with adults. It leads to a Lord of the Flies atmosphere. The kids that seem to be the biggest bullies here have the most freedom -- as in they spend little time with family/teachers/adult settings and more time with peers. They are KIDS. They don't know what proper behavior is until it is modeled over and over and over.

GMW beat me to the punch by already cutting and pasting this, but this is so true. There has to be a great deal of parental guidance and it is just utterly lacking.

[rainbabies]

I have a question. I've been second guessing myself on it since yesterday. There's a girl in dd #1 class. She's 6. She rides the bus home with my kids (they ride in w me in the mornings)
Thursday all the way to the other girls house she was slapping my dd, age 5, on the head. It was all the way home
Dd got off the bus crying and obviously upset. I asked my other two and they said the bus driver said she'd take care if it. My neighbor who is a bus driver, said to contact the principal. I did Friday am, but felt like one of "those moms". He was super nice and asked if it was ok if my dd and other girl were brought together for a chat and that he'd change the bus seating. Was I right in bringing it up? Or was I over reacting?
The little girl...we've already had issues w. She demanded my other dd's silly band. And said if dd didn't buy her one, my dd wouldn't get hers back.
Ug. In my heart I feel like it was right...but my head says I'm an over protective freak.

[scrub-jay]

In my heart I feel like it was right...but my head says I'm an over protective freak.

Listen to your heart this time.

[HouseofWool]

I have a question. I've been second guessing myself on it since yesterday. There's a girl in dd #1 class. She's 6. She rides the bus home with my kids (they ride in w me in the mornings)
Thursday all the way to the other girls house she was slapping my dd, age 5, on the head. It was all the way home
Dd got off the bus crying and obviously upset. I asked my other two and they said the bus driver said she'd take care if it. My neighbor who is a bus driver, said to contact the principal. I did Friday am, but felt like one of "those moms". He was super nice and asked if it was ok if my dd and other girl were brought together for a chat and that he'd change the bus seating. Was I right in bringing it up? Or was I over reacting?
The little girl...we've already had issues w. She demanded my other dd's silly band. And said if dd didn't buy her one, my dd wouldn't get hers back.
Ug. In my heart I feel like it was right...but my head says I'm an over protective freak.

You did not over-react. Left unchecked those are the behaviors that become full-on bullying. Better to sit the kiddo down now when she still thinks adults are in control so that the bad behavior doesn't escalate.

[Thirteen]

You did the right thing. It's never too early to show a no-tolerance policy, and by having a conversation, you are in no way being irrational.
You're a good mom - kudos to you for sticking up for your daughter
Like my mom (ECE, National Board Certified teacher) says "Hands are not for hitting."

[Thirteen]

Adrianne - this presumes that the kids are not sociopaths. I am seeing more and more that the parents set reasonable limits and enforce them and the kids continue to flaunt authority. It sucks.

This breaks my heart. My mom can totally pick them out of a class, every year, in school. I think all teachers on some level, after years of teaching, can spot the future "delinquent members of society" before they even commit their first act of deviant behavior.
Some are scarier than others, but still - you have a good point.

[GrayMatterWife]

My neighbor who is a bus driver, said to contact the principal. I did Friday am, but felt like one of "those moms". He was super nice and asked if it was ok if my dd and other girl were brought together for a chat and that he'd change the bus seating. Was I right in bringing it up? Or was I over reacting?
The little girl...we've already had issues w. She demanded my other dd's silly band. And said if dd didn't buy her one, my dd wouldn't get hers back.

Absolutely you were right! Your DD is 5! She cannot effectively advocate for herself when she is being victimized another, older kid! She was physically assaulted and had her possession stolen! ABSOLUTELY notify the proper authority at the school. If not just for your DD, for the other kid, too! She needs some help and attention!