The *F* Word

[MrsK]

Welcome. No advice but I panic every time I hear the word "fellowship. " Glad you came out of hiding. You will find what you need here.

[MsSassyBaskets]

No good advice here, but welcome!!

[Thirteen]

We skipped it - no difference financially, and not really needed to be successful.


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[diggitydot]

Everyone else has already given great advice. All I've really got is

We get it. The weird medical shitfests that no one else understands? We've usually got someone kicking around these parts who's BTDT.

Feel free to come here and vent like a mofo when it all goes sideways. We've got you.

BTW, my DH did fellowship and while the hours sucked donkey balls, it was doable. So much in medicine varies.

[v-girl]

Welcome! DH did mdphd, residency, and a fellowship (that considers itself a residency). I couldn't handle it all and quit working full time a few months into residency. We survived on his income.

It does suck. Vent away. We do get it.

[rainbabies]

Welcome! My dh didn't do a fellowship. He just couldn't imagine having the life sucked out of him even more. And quite honestly, we couldn't afford to be in training any longer....three kids/sahm. (Dh is an ob/gyn)

[ladymoreta]

Welcome, Gem! My only advice would be to seriously consider moving if he's going to do a fellowship, unless you have a really amazing reason to stay. It sounds like you could all use a fresh start and change of scenery. Relocating could also help you reset your financial needs. We lived pretty well on DH's resident salary (around $48k), with a little savings (and then a crapload of debt in the last few months, but that's another story for another time). Living in an area with a lower COL could allow you to trade your work stresses for a less demanding job, or even SAH if you're interested in doing that.

[Ladybug]

2-4 years? I'm speechless. That's asking a lot. Anything longer than 2 I can't imagine. That's a huge chunk of time and earning potential. Do you think it's financially worth it?

[Pollyanna]

Welcome, you certainly have come to the right place!! Dh did a fellowship (3 years) and for us it was most definitely worth it. Plus, our fellowship schedule was a thing of beauty, the easiest part of training for sure. You just never know. But I am worried that you mentioned that you are at a malignant training program but at the same time are willing to sign on for a 2-4 year fellowship. Is it with a different department or institution? I'd get the heck out of town if you have to sign on for more years of malignancy.

[bobk]

I'd like to second LadyMoreta's point about relocating for fellowship. The change of scenery has been great for us. Our new city has a slightly lower COL and we were able to afford a bigger home in a nicer neighborhood. While it would have been easier in many ways to stay in the same city and house, I think it would have felt like just more of the same instead of moving on to another phase.

[SoonerTexan]

The duration of fellowship would depend on how he structured research time, but it would be 2-4 years. We would not move. We have agreed upon that, and I am very grateful.

1 year, sure. 2 years...maybe. 2-4, NFW.

[gem]

Thanks for all the many things to ponder.

I know it sounds incongruous to say the residency program is malignant but that we want to stay. There are a few factors. We have talked a lot about moving, but this is home for both of us. We have lived in far-off places before, but we were ready to come back. This is where we want to settle, and job prospects will be a lot better if we stay here. We are a short drive from family, and I get a lot of emotional support (and free babysitting) from my folks. If it were one year I'd be game for a change of scenery, but for longer than that I need my roots.

Also, the fellows in our current program, many of whom are good friends, have assured us that the fellowship side of training here doesn't have many of the same problems as the residency program. The first year of fellowship is supposed to be as bad as intern year, but that's going to be the case most places. Which, I just can't even imagine. Intern year was a very dark time for us. Shudder.

I do expect the latter years of fellowship would be easier for him in terms of lifestyle. I don't know whether that would translate into my life being easier or not. He has been around for so little of our children's lives that he has no idea how to be helpful with them. Will I be able to teach him how to engage them? Will I be able to teach them to trust him to help with tooth-brushing? Does easier schedule make things easier for everybody?

[Sheherezade]

Staying put for extended family nearby with small kids is a great idea. That's almost as big a deal as whether a fellowship is malignant or not.

DH did a fellowship for 3 years. In his field, a fellowship changes your entire career, so it was a no brainer. That said, it was much harder on us than residency. Hours were much worse, even in his research year. Some fellowships are like second residencies in that you are training in roman entirely different career, and you are the "first line" for the patients much as an intern/resident would be. Other fellowships are like baby attendings. Make sure you know which one you are headed in to, because nothing sucks more than thinking you are about to be promoted to "baby attending" only to find you are treated like an intern again by the actual attendings.

My DH is in Gyn Onc and trains fellows himself now. FWIW, you end up as a trainee again because the residents and interns on service know nothing, really. The fellows are the only ones the attendings trust, so they get all the work.

Surgical fellowships are also more work, generally because they require more hours in the OR to learn all the specialized surgery.

Know what you are getting in to. In our case, it was the worst time in our marriage, but ultimately well worth it, unfortunately.


Angie

[houseelf]

First, can I just highlight this and reinforce that this is NOT overstated:

My DH is in Gyn Onc and trains fellows himself now. FWIW, you end up as a trainee again because the residents and interns on service know nothing, really. The fellows are the only ones the attendings trust, so they get all the work.

Surgical fellowships are also more work, generally because they require more hours in the OR to learn all the specialized surgery.

DH received fantastic surgical training and was named Chief resident. Within the first week of fellowship, however, he felt like he was in almost an entirely different field. While GS residents do have to receive some training in this subspecialty, it is its own universe. Have him ask about this aspect extensively.

Second, how much control over the time frame of "2-4 years" do you have? At the GS program, the majority of residents could control when they came out of their research years. However, it was always a numbers game because the program needed 6 categorical residents for each training year. Every once in awhile someone got stuck doing an extra unanticipated lab year to make the numbers work out. I would ask for a lot of clarity on this issue.

Third, take this advice fwiw, but fellowship was a time when we let some of our financial responsibility slide. We did go into debt for me to SAH, but it was for only two years and we had been super responsible for the previous seven. This is possibly terrible advice OR it may save your sanity/marriage if you want to cut back work hours. Just a thought.