puppy talk :)

[Ladybug]

[MENTION=985]spotty_dog[/MENTION] I've been trying to figure out how to tag you for a month so I hope this works. So we met our sheltie puppy last week. She was only three weeks old and still fit in the palm of your hand. Her eyes were open, but still very sleepy and docile. We held her on her back and she was docile and comfortable. They had a built on kennel to their house which was supper clean. Mother and father were very easy going personalities. Mom was only 16 months old thought!

I've been reading this book, the art of raising a puppy, written by the new skete monks who raise Shepards to support their contemplative monastery. They written several dog books and I really like them. I also found a good book for the kids about bringing a puppy home, what to expect and some basic training commands. It's all written at a late elementary/middle school level. I've set out her bowls and her bed. We can't wait til she's here with us. We pick her up April 24th at 8 weeks old.

Our friends decided on a standard poodle. He's black and they named him Polo. I haven't heard much from them so I think Polo is keeping the household busy

[spotty_dog]

You will definitely want to read "Before and After You Get Your Puppy." Can't recommend it enough. It's available free with free registration from Dr. Dunbar's site, http://www.dogstardaily.com/ Look for the menus and sub-menus along the top of the page.

I do have to just double check...if the dam is only 16 months, that means she hasn't had any health clearances done, which...could be a a red flag. Do your due diligence? Puppy breath is so intoxicating! But you want a pup who'll be hale and hearty for his or her entire allotted 12-15 years.

I think I've shifted toward the miniature poodle now! Standards can get pretty big, and I'm intimidated enough by the need to brush the dog regularly *and* get it groomed. The less dog to brush the better! There's a litter ready in May I'm considering; one ready in June that's a pretty big maybe; another maybe coming up in the fall; and a really terrific breeder whose next litter will be fall-ish. But she's really pricey. Ugh.

Puppies! Whee!

(Oh, and I first read the Monks when I was 12. Do be sure you have the newer editions that include caveats to their advice about hitting/slapping/smacking dogs for misbehavior. I guess they second-guessed that part. And you might also want to read some of the commonly available rebuttals to the "alpha/dominance" theory of human/dog relationships, just to get the whole picture.)

[peggyfromwastate]

I read the monks book too and others but the monks are the ones who stuck with me.

I was always a BigDogPerson but I really prefer medium sized (30-40 lbs). It's just so much simpler in many ways. I don't think I could go full poodle bc my Labradoodle is about 75% poodle and that's just tooooo much. The only poodle traits she didn't get have to do with intelligence lol.

Ah puppies. We are always looking at puppies too. Crazy.

[spotty_dog]

Tell me more about the unbearable poodliness. Is it the bouncing? I have only met a couple and not spent much time with the breed. It's part of why I'm not trying to rush in to a puppy! I want to know it's a breed I can live with, LOL.

My spotty dog was about 43 pounds in her prime and it was a great size. When she got sick, I could carry her up and down the stairs multiple times per day and only *slightly* throw my back out. But she did eat 1.5-2 cups of kibble a day at her size, and she was 18-19" tall which, after 8.5 years of trying to jam her in at the kids' feet or in among our belongings on a road trip, was not *quite* as portable as I'm hoping for this time. The poodles I'm looking at will hopefully be 16-17" tall and only 20 pounds! Built like endurance runners. Hopefully eating half as much but having just as much energy for hiking.

I learned a lot from the Monks and their lifestyle is inspiring. But I just read Kathy Sdao's "Plenty in Life is Free" and wow, did THAT resonate spiritually with me. It's a lot more like how I raise my kids -- "unconditional dog training?"

[peggyfromwastate]

The poodle stuff I see in her is the jumping (like from all 4 on the floor to the top of the table lol) and the running around constantly. She's all energy all the time. And she's a hunter-- my only dog to have made a kill. She hunted down a squirrel that had been terrorizing my moms garden boxes-- she killed it and then pranced around the yard with it hanging out of her mouth all morning. That could be lab too though. She is super playful though and truly is sweet.

My grandma had full poodles and they were really smart and playful and very energetic well into their teens. As in, 15 years old and still bouncing around.

This is exciting!!!! Puppies!!!

[Thirteen]

How fun!

I agree with keeping potential health issues in mind: a true breeder breeds to the standard to better the breed/show. Most screenings take place after 2, so I'd be wary. Also, (for large breed), many will not sell pups to go home without a contract (pet or show), and will wait til said pup is 10 weeks.

For all you doing research for your next dog adventure, I hope it's a rewarding experience. My "puppy" turns 5 (!) in October.


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[spotty_dog]

How fun!

I agree with keeping potential health issues in mind: a true breeder breeds to the standard to better the breed/show. Most screenings take place after 2, so I'd be wary. Also, (for large breed), many will not sell pups to go home without a contract (pet or show), and will wait til said pup is 10 weeks.

For all you doing research for your next dog adventure, I hope it's a rewarding experience. My "puppy" turns 5 (!) in October.

Small breeds often wait longer, especially ones where there's a height standard (like Shelties and Mini Poodles). They may let the obvious non-show pups go home at 9 weeks, but they grow the best prospects out until about 12 weeks.

I totally agree about reputable/responsible breeders having a goal for their program besides just making puppies, and that they will sell pups on a contract that protects you, them, the breed, and the overpopulation problem.

I'm so scared to get a puppy, y'all. I haven't raised one since 1996, and our house is so calm and predictable lately. I kind of think that the chaos of puppyhood might be good for us, but also full of both good and bad stress. *breathe*

[SoonerTexan]

We had shelties for years! They can be very gentle and patient. They can also be stubborn and bark your damn ear off. They were always very protective of us kids and of my kids as well.

I will say that my parent's (likely last) sheltie has been kind of a dud...and he was supposedly the most well-bred reputable one she could find. He apparently comes from a line of "agility champions" and the dog falls off the couch all the time and generally drives my mother nuts. Our favorite sheltie was one they purchased from someone that I don't think was even a real breeder, but they coddled him as a puppy. He was so smart and fun. Sadly he ran away or was taken. We were all heartbroken.

[Ladybug]

Ugh. I never thought about losing a dog!! My kids would be devastated. It would be a painful experience.

We had a dog that ran away when I was a kid. Ernie. He was a dachshund. He returned in the rain 1.5 years later on the night of my birthday in the a Texas January thunderstorm. We heard some noise at the door at nights no when we opened I the burst throughthedoor and started running around the loop in our house like he used to do. He was never same though. Always feral. He eventually left again. My mom had later had a random dream where Ernie ran up to her, loved on her and then ran off towards the horizon. She knew Ernie had died.

So the breeder (I'm linking her site below) said we could pick up the pup between 8-10 weeks. Should we push it off so she can be further socialized by her litter mates and mom? Around eight weeks the people socialization process also starts but she has four grand kids that come to her house after school each day. Tempy is the female we put a deposit on.

http://www.marisweetshelties.com

I work through the end of May and I'm taking the whole summer off. I have a sitter to help with kids and pup so everyone can still get to the pool, etc.

My other option (I'm on the wait list) is a more reputable and prolific breeder. Her last two litters were gone either before birth or within the first week. She sells them for show and pets. She had two bitches in heat last month and they will be born on the end of May. This means I couldn't bring them home til late summer and I'm going back to work (2-3 days/wk) late august. I won't have as much time to train and socialize the puppy. I do plan to get some dog care during the days I work regardless of which puppy we get. That's a given on the days I work.

http://heartlandshelties.homestead.com/Puppies.html

She has some males, but I really want a female for our first dog.

So this becomes a true nature vs nurture question. Is it better to spend more time with a pup from a less desirable breeder, or wait for the possibly better breeder with less time to spend with the pup after 12 weeks?

[spotty_dog]

IMO, it's not exactly about spending time with the dog because of its newness. I spent *too* much time with Mieke when she was new to our house, and because of it she got used to having me around and developed separation anxiety when I got a job. But when it comes to puppies, I'm pretty sure you are going to have SUCH a better experience with potty training and chewtoy training if you can be on top of things with potty breaks roughly every hour, plus exercise breaks and playtime and training time interspersed throughout the day, and no one stretch of more than 3-4 hours unsupervised. So...it's a tough call. Plenty of people raise puppies while working full days and just coming home on their lunch breaks. It can totally work.

Except...I hate to say it but neither of those breeders is either responsible or reputable IMO. The first is a backyard breeder and the second is a puppy mill. I'm not judging, I am probably going to go with a BYB because of schedule and price, but my BYB does at least some health testing and I've researched the puppies' pedigrees. I definitely like Mari's better than the other (she does do limited contract and has a 2-year health guarantee and let you meet the puppies and parents), but in Shelties I would really prefer to see at least hips and eyes done, and eyes done on the puppies before they go home. You could get lucky and have a robust little one, but you could...not.

Just to cover your bases, do consider contacting some local Shetland Sheepdog clubs. They usually have breeder lists or a referral contact person. http://www.assa.org/clubs.html

[spotty_dog]

BTW, I don't think we get enough puppy updates around here! There must be photos when your little one comes home (especially with your photography skills!) It'll help me get through if I decide to wait for fall, LOL.

[peggyfromwastate]

I would do the first breeder too between those two. My big guy is from a BYB and while he has papers he's a pure bred dog that is 20 lbs heavier than his dad... And the breed standard. We do love him of course. The Labradoodle took forever to narrow down the breeder we wanted. We drove several hours to pick her up, and I was in between a bigger operation (not quite a puppy mill) and a smaller one. I passed on a breeder that I knew had bred her bitches too frequently, and I really liked the breeder I chose because of her open door policy, and paperwork and guarantees for life. It's easier to guarantee against genetic issues with hybrids, but I just had a lot of peace of mind with the process and while she was more expensive than out BYB Airedale, she's cost nothing in vet bills except for the normal stuff. The Airedale has had all sorts of issues, mostly due to his size. Maybe he's just a clumsy dog!!! Who knows!!!

Anyway between those I'd go with number 1. And I also think it's ok to have pups at home at 8 weeks old. We had puppy #1 home at about 9.5 weeks and puppy #2 at 8... They both did fine. I don't think I'd go beyond 10 weeks old though with little ones around. Especially if you can let your kids get cuddles in before the pup cuts teeth because then it may be not fun for a while.

[Ladybug]

Thanks [MENTION=985]spotty_dog[/MENTION] and [MENTION=820]peggyfromwastate[/MENTION] . Everyone's feedback has been super helpful. I'm going to move forward with the BYB and keep Tempy. We're scheduled to pick her up on April 27th which is 8 weeks. I'm not sure if I can push it back. In the pet pic thread I mentioned that DD9 talks about the puppy all day long. She watches you tube videos of agility test, looks at puppy pictures, prays for her each night at bedtime. The kid's got it bad. I daydream about her all the time too honestly. I think our hearts are spoken for. Most importantly it gives me almost four months to get her trained and adjusted to our household. My mom's sheltie didn't bark excessively, but mom put a lot of time into her training. I want to be able to do the same. Fingers crossed she can be trained to keep it to a low roar...because my kids are so calm and quiet all the time

In retrospect I wouldn't take the kids to meet a breeder again unless I was 100% sure this was the dog. They fell in love immediately. Another life lesson tucked neatly under my belt.

[TulipsAndSunscreen]

Ok, that is the cutest dang thing I've EVER seen.

We cannot get a puppy. We cannot get a puppy. Backing slowly out of thread...

[WolfpackWife]

Gahh! OH MY GOD THAT FACE.