Can I Rant?

[WolfpackWife]

Yes. Exactly. Doctors really don’t get to have a bad day. They cannot afford to be preoccupied because the cat died, the kids have the chicken pocks, and their spouse is annoyed with them. Just consider what you need when you are seriously ill, what you expect from your surgeon. You need your doctor to be able to set aside her own drama, roll up her sleeves, and get the job done.


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Yes! And like R&D said, I think there is a push to at least be more aware of the need for some semblance of a work/life balance and the need for mental health awareness and support for residents and physicians. Just the acknowledgement of that is much more than they've gotten, historically, but we ALL have had to grapple and come to terms with the fact that this will very, very likely NEVER be what we think it should be. It will never be an acceptable work/life balance (except in those unicorn job situations, few and far between though they may be), but hopefully the tides change to allow for a humane work/life balance. It will never - or at least rarely - slow down enough to allow for - or encourage - a doctor to sit back during his or her day and think "what can I be doing at home to help my spouse and my children? How can I be more present? More supportive?" Even if/when medicine acknowledges we exist, it will never support us to the detriment of the patients and the patients families. If any family comes first, it's the patient's in most cases, to be honest. It will never give us all the holidays, all the birthdays, all the events, all the moments we thought we'd have from our spouses. And it fucking sucks. I was literally sobbing about this last week.

[MrsK]

Yes! And like R&D said, I think there is a push to at least be more aware of the need for some semblance of a work/life balance and the need for mental health awareness and support for residents and physicians. Just the acknowledgement of that is much more than they've gotten, historically, but we ALL have had to grapple and come to terms with the fact that this will very, very likely NEVER be what we think it should be. It will never be an acceptable work/life balance (except in those unicorn job situations, few and far between though they may be), but hopefully the tides change to allow for a humane work/life balance. It will never - or at least rarely - slow down enough to allow for - or encourage - a doctor to sit back during his or her day and think "what can I be doing at home to help my spouse and my children? How can I be more present? More supportive?" Even if/when medicine acknowledges we exist, it will never support us to the detriment of the patients and the patients families. If any family comes first, it's the patient's in most cases, to be honest. It will never give us all the holidays, all the birthdays, all the events, all the moments we thought we'd have from our spouses. And it fucking sucks. I was literally sobbing about this last week.

It really does fucking suck. Medicine is such a hellish bitch. That’s why I started this thread. I was just so angry and frustrated that the doctor can’t be home when he says he will be and that he cannot carry the baton when he gets here. I do think that he could work on learning the home procedures better, learn how to discipline the kids, keep them on task, make a meal they’ll actually eat and then wash the dishes. But I know that the truth of the matter is that he will arrive home hours late and exhausted, then sit at the kitchen table dictating notes and be interrupted by dozens of phone calls and texts while the kids run wild. My worst day as a homemaker and parent is far better than his best day in the same role and he’d assuredly be fired if he was the babysitter. I’m not happy about it but there is very little I can do to change it.


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[MAPPLEBUM]

A couple thoughts. It does seem that many young doctors are looking for jobs that don't eat up their entire lives. My father in law called them "lifestylists." After he coined the term I started noticing them more and more. The ID doc who's working as a hospitalist so she can go on vacation as much as possible. The retina specialist who took a job in HIS WIFE'S JOB LOCATION (I still can't get over that) and works 2 days a week to help with their kids (I'll never get over it). Medicine is slow to change, that's obvious. So it makes sense that younger physicians get around that by simply finding jobs with better hours. There was a thread recently on WCI about an older doc who's financially independent but continues to work .75 because he enjoys it. He has been taking weekend call because he wanted to be a team player, not because he wanted to. In walks a new hire who negotiated with the practice owner to take ZERO weekend call. The implication is she's fresh out of training and when the docs talked to her about taking some call for the team she was like, nah.

My husband isn't like that and I gather most of our spouses aren't. I'm glad I had low expectations when he finished training because so far as I can tell the only difference is the money.

The fact is we have all had to become cheerleaders for their careers. I don't know if you can get through without it. Last weekend we were in CO. Lots of time together. Now, I'm glad he talks to me. He didn't always. But there were a few moments when he was prattling on about work and I thought, can't he talk about something else? Does he really think I find his work that interesting? Yes, he does. it's all he thinks about and I'm sure the thought has never crossed his mind that maybe I tire of hearing about it.

BTW MrsK, mind telling us who your author friend is?

[MsSassyBaskets]

DH went to a remarkably family-friendly residency program that actually did speak to residents occasionally about work-life balance... they were incredibly caring and understanding about their residents as people, but the messaging was laughable when DH had to take extra hours out of his busy week to be lectured on balance during intern year when I was working full time and taking care of an infant who hadn't seen her dad for 3-4 days at a time. Still, it's an improvement over a medical school that told its students "If you have a significant other, you might want to rethink that".

[TulipsAndSunscreen]

Yes. Exactly. Doctors really don’t get to have a bad day. They cannot afford to be preoccupied because the cat died, the kids have the chicken pocks, and their spouse is annoyed with them. Just consider what you need when you are seriously ill, what you expect from your surgeon. You need your doctor to be able to set aside her own drama, roll up her sleeves, and get the job done.
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I think this is super relevant to the situation as well. Literally to be a good doctor, you have to be able to put your stuff aside. As someone with a family member in a current medical crisis, I REALLY don't want his surgeons bringing that ish to work...I need them FOCUSED on the task at hand.

[TulipsAndSunscreen]

I do think it is slowly getting better. Many of DH's co-residents are choosing practices with better lifestyle situations. In fact, DH wrote a workforce paper last year that demonstrated that there would be a shortage in his specialty in the coming decades. One of the assumptions in the Excel model that he (cough, cough....I) built was actually lower productivity for younger doctors because they don't WANT to work as hard/take as much call. They're more likely to have spouses who work or aging parents to deal with than in previous generations.

[Jim in Virginia]

Perhaps I'm too new to be jealous of the job. I have no problem at all (yet) with the fact that she works 80-90 hours per week and comes home tired, or that she needs to do some work-related things at home, or that she misses the kids activities. I embraced this new life as her support staff, full-time caretaker for three kids, while also working full-time from home, with long days when she is not here and not communicating. What I didn't anticipate was that she would devote most of her attention when not working to preserving her friendships rather than to me and our children; she takes our relationship for granted and mourns the loss of time with her friends. But perhaps I am the only medical spouse to whom this has ever happened, or maybe I am unusual is wanting closeness with my doctor spouse when she is not working rather than time to myself or help around the house.

[MAPPLEBUM]

I don't know that I distinguish between social and work time anymore. For example, he texted last night saying he had a 6:30 case. At 10:15 I sent a text asking if he'd gone out. He responded almost immediately that he was finishing up and coming home. What was he doing? He certainly wasn't in surgery. Was he charting? Talking to a resident? Dicking around on Instagram? Drinking a beer? I didn't ask because I only ask when I'm prepared to get into an argument. He was home an hour later.

Perhaps I'm too new to be jealous of the job. I have no problem at all (yet) with the fact that she works 80-90 hours per week and comes home tired, or that she needs to do some work-related things at home, or that she misses the kids activities. I embraced this new life as her support staff, full-time caretaker for three kids, while also working full-time from home, with long days when she is not here and not communicating. What I didn't anticipate was that she would devote most of her attention when not working to preserving her friendships rather than to me and our children; she takes our relationship for granted and mourns the loss of time with her friends. But perhaps I am the only medical spouse to whom this has ever happened, or maybe I am unusual is wanting closeness with my doctor spouse when she is not working rather than time to myself or help around the house.

[Jim in Virginia]

How agonizing--not knowing whether he's stayed later because he really needed to or because he's choosing to socialize. That does put you in a horrible spot, because he might just get angry if you question him. I've worried that if I complain to much about her divided attention at home, she'll just choose to spend less time at home. But I think our children will always draw her here; she feels some guilt about her absence from them.

[Jim in Virginia]

It's great that you can help with his work in some way (building an Excel model). It should strengthen the connection between you and make him appreciate you more.

[PrincessFiona]

Perhaps I'm too new to be jealous of the job. I have no problem at all (yet) with the fact that she works 80-90 hours per week and comes home tired, or that she needs to do some work-related things at home, or that she misses the kids activities. I embraced this new life as her support staff, full-time caretaker for three kids, while also working full-time from home, with long days when she is not here and not communicating. What I didn't anticipate was that she would devote most of her attention when not working to preserving her friendships rather than to me and our children; she takes our relationship for granted and mourns the loss of time with her friends. But perhaps I am the only medical spouse to whom this has ever happened, or maybe I am unusual is wanting closeness with my doctor spouse when she is not working rather than time to myself or help around the house.

I don’t think you’re unusual. I relate to you very much. My husband is 17 years out of training and I continue to choose to support his medical career, putting my own life and career second. On his off time, my husband reads voraciously. I have to beg him for attention at times. He is a veritable encyclopedia of knowledge and can give extemporaneous talks to the residents with 5 minutes advanced warning. But I don’t care about that. I just want him to focus on us when he’s home. I want to be the focus of his attention.


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[MrsK]

BTW MrsK, mind telling us who your author friend is?

I'll send you a PM. This is a public forum so I'd prefer to keep her anxieties about the book anonymous.


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[MrsK]

Perhaps I'm too new to be jealous of the job. I have no problem at all (yet) with the fact that she works 80-90 hours per week and comes home tired, or that she needs to do some work-related things at home, or that she misses the kids activities. I embraced this new life as her support staff, full-time caretaker for three kids, while also working full-time from home, with long days when she is not here and not communicating. What I didn't anticipate was that she would devote most of her attention when not working to preserving her friendships rather than to me and our children; she takes our relationship for granted and mourns the loss of time with her friends. But perhaps I am the only medical spouse to whom this has ever happened, or maybe I am unusual is wanting closeness with my doctor spouse when she is not working rather than time to myself or help around the house.

I get this. We all have these battles too. I get pissed when DrK spends free time at the gym. Others get annoyed by their spouses other hobbies. I've heard complaints about bike riding, reading, fishing, as well as going out with friends. There is never enough of the doctor to go around.

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[MAPPLEBUM]

Thanks! Also, did you purposefully put this in GR? I'll probably edit my posts if the thread stays public.

I'll send you a PM. This is a public forum so I'd prefer to keep her anxieties about the book anonymous.


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[MrsK]

Thanks! Also, did you purposefully put this in GR? I'll probably edit my posts if the thread stays public.

Yeah, I'm ok with GR for now. It's pretty much the usual garden variety med spouse complaints.

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