Angry Pedestrian

[Rapunzel]

Having lived in Boston for four years now a HUGE pet peeve of mine is....

Stupid pedestrians.

There are so many pedestrians that just dart out into traffic around here! They don't use the crosswalks. They don't wait for the "walk" light. They don't make sure that cars are NOT turning right on red (which turning right on red is the default correct thing to do - legally). They just go! I can't tell you how many times I see drivers having had to slam on the breaks because of this insane behavior.

Clue to pedestrians: Car vs. You - Car always wins. Always. Roads are for cars. You have to assume the cars cannot see you and proceed accordingly.

The worst was a couple of years ago when I was sitting in traffic in the Longwood Medical area waiting to turn left. The car in front of me began to move forward when the light turned green. JUST at that moment some guy decides it's time to run out in front of that car (about three car lengths away from the crosswalk btw). This car immediately slams on the breaks. The pedestrian seems to be enraged that the car stopped for him to do his dangerous jaywalking number and proceeds to DUMP his bottle of water into the lap of the stunned driver of the car (who was unfortunate enough to keep the windows rolled down on that beautiful day). I was just flabbergasted! Maybe the driver should have just run over that jerk!

The pedestrians around here are insane. Absolutely insane.

In Texas (at least in Dallas and San Antonio) people actually look both ways before they cross the street and wait until the light turns and no cars are coming before crossing.

BTW - Unless there is a sign that specifically tells vehicles NOT to turn right on red - the rule (and, generally, the law) is that you turn right on red. Period.

[Rapunzel]

Oh, in line with Heidi's pet peeve about dogs -

My other big pet peeve are people who call/treat/believe their pets are children. Pets are animals. You may love them (as I do my cats) but they in no way, shape, or form compare to children. Period. Drives me up the wall when people with a cat or dog think their experience with an animal prepares them for parenthood or in any way compares to my parenting experiences.

[Sheherezade]

Not sure about that Jennifer. I was under the assumption that you go right on red IF the crosswalk in clear. As a former Boston pedestrian, I have to mention that there are TONS of signs on barrels in the middle of the road telling cars that they MUST STOP FOR PEDESTRIANS in crosswalk. You must have seen them. Couldn't be only Brookline. I believe the pedestrians have the right of way in the crosswalks that are not at signals and when crossing with a green signal at a crosswalk with signal. Cars turning must yield to pedestrians. I know that's the law here in Ohio-- just looked it up in the DMV manual. Walkers get right of way if crosswalk signal is on walk vs. cars turning right on red.

[Rapunzel]

My understanding is that if there is a sign that states "No turn on red" at the corner then you must wait until the light turns green to turn right. Otherwise the default is that you may turn right on red.

I know that in Texas, the mantra we had to learn prior to our driver's ed exam was "right on red". And, my understanding is that it's the default in Mass as well (thus the need for signs stating not to turn right on red at certain locations). If there is a sign that states do not turn right on red then it takes precedence. If not then right on red is the rule.

Yes, in Massachusetts anyone may dart out into traffic if they are, in fact, physically within a crosswalk. One of the insane, idiotic things about this state. However, this apparently leads people to believe that they can dart out in front of traffic anywhere because I routinely see it done (pretty much everytime I drive in my car in the city). Crosswalks seem to be nothing more than a "suggestion". The worst is when I see women with their kids just walking out in the middle of traffic (HELLOOO! Look both ways before you cross - I think Barney had a song about that! AND cross in the CROSSWALK!).

It's unbelievable the number of people who seem to think they are indestructible.

You look both ways before crossing the street.

You cross in a crosswalk when no cars are coming.

The car is a basically a huge weapon - and you must assume that the driver cannot see you.

I thought these were basic rules of safety???

[Vanquisher]

Not sure about that Jennifer. I was under the assumption that you go right on red IF the crosswalk in clear. As a former Boston pedestrian, I have to mention that there are TONS of signs on barrels in the middle of the road telling cars that they MUST STOP FOR PEDESTRIANS in crosswalk. You must have seen them. Couldn't be only Brookline. I believe the pedestrians have the right of way in the crosswalks that are not at signals and when crossing with a green signal at a crosswalk with signal. Cars turning must yield to pedestrians. I know that's the law here in Ohio-- just looked it up in the DMV manual. Walkers get right of way if crosswalk signal is on walk vs. cars turning right on red.

This is true almost anywhere. Yes, a car may turn right on red unless stated otherwise in most states, UNLESS there are pedestrians. Pedestrians have the right of way at an intersection/crosswalk.

That doesn't mean they should walk out in front of oncoming traffic or when the light is red for them, that is just stupid (commonsense is a good thing), but they DO, in fact, have the right of way.

[Sheherezade]

I admit that Boston pedestrians are a special breed.

However, in the interest of saving the lives of other pedestrians out ther who might be hit when someone is turning right on red....here's the law in Illinois:

You may make a right turn at a red arrow, or a left turn at a red arrow when turning from a one-way street onto another one-way street that has traffic moving to the left. In both instances, drivers must come to a full stop and yield the right-of way to oncoming traffic and pedestrians."

and in Oregon:

Except when a sign is in place prohibiting a turn on red, vehicular traffic facing a steady red arrow signal indication may enter the intersection to turn right into a two-way street, or to turn right or left into a one-way street in the direction of traffic upon the one-way street after stopping. Such vehicular traffic shall yield the right-of-way to pedestrians lawfully within an adjacent crosswalk and to other traffic lawfully using the intersection.

They had online manuals. It's similar here in Ohio, was so in MD, MA and in FL. I didn't have a license in NY or Philly. Yes, cars can turn right on red *if the way is clear of other cars AND pedestrians*.

Clearly, you walked right in to my pet peeve!!! (And I, yours!)

True, cars versus people the car always wins but pedestrians have the right of way. After stopping to turn right on red, you still have to give them the right of way.

At least that is the rule here. I recently took (and passed!) my driver's test. The new additional thing now is that you have to allow a pedestrian to be a lane away before you turn (specific to my state, I think).

Yeah, I'm with Angie and Heidi on this one. Right on red is fine -- provided that: a) a sign doesn't say right on red is prohibited
b) the car making the turn has made a complete stop first and made sure oncoming traffic or pedestrians aren't in the way.

If that wasn't the case, all the electronic crosswalks I've seen wherever I've lived would be worthless i.e. those crosswalks are telling folks to walk at precisely the same time someone might be wanting to take that right on red.

[Rapunzel]

If there is a crosswalk signal at the light that states "walk" (in its many pictoral and verbal forms) then that makes sense for the pedestrian to walk out. However, the pedestrian needs to first make sure no vehicles are turning. It's a simple matter of safety. If the driver doesn't see you then he/she doesn't see you. You have to make sure that drivers are aware that you are entering the crosswalk.

In Boston, however, par for the course is to NOT wait until the crosswalk signals "walk". I see the elderly, children, adults all just walk out into busy traffic expecting not to get hit. In my area people DO get hit. But, they never seem to learn.

If the sign says not to turn right on red then the pedestrian can "usually" assume the light turning red signals "walk". But, if there is no such sign then the pedestrian has the responsibility to protect his/her safety by first LOOKING and ascertaining no vehicles are turning AND making sure any drivers that might cross the path of the pedestrian can see them.

It's just a simple matter of common sense and safety. I mean, look both ways before crossing the street was something I learned in kindergarten.

[poky]

The laws *generally* (and this does vary by area, but this is typical) are that if the light is red and there's no "no right on red" sign, cars *can* turn right on red *if* there are no pedestrians crossing. Pedestrians have the right of way in a crosswalk, unless they're crossing against a pedestrian crossing light. It is the driver's responsibility to make sure nobody is crossing before turning right on red. It is not the pedestrian's responsibility to wait until everyone who wants to turn right on red does.

Darting out suddenly without looking, and going against ped lights, and crossing mid-street are all stupid and illegal things pedestrians do, but crossing with the light and holding up someone who wants to turn right on red really isn't illegal. It's stupid when there are entitled drivers on the street that want to run them over for delaying them by 10 seconds, yes, but not illegal, at least where I've lived.

The fact that "the car wins" puts the *legal* onus on the car's driver to check where they're going, actually; the world isn't all "might makes right".

-Sandy, not a pedestrian, usually, but had to sit through a pedestrain safety class in leiu of paying a ticket for coming too close to a pedestrian in a crosswalk.

[Rapunzel]

No, it's not might makes right.

But, as a pedestrian myself I know that my safety comes before any principle of the matter. And, the fact is that a driver may not see you (that was the case here in Mass not too long ago where a man crossed the road at night against the light and a driver, not seeing him, hit him and the man died - the driver was not charged and ruled not to be responsible for the accident).

Safety comes first. You look both ways and let a rude driver or one attempting to make an illegal turn do it or one who simply doesn't see you go - because your safety and well-being are more important. That's why the basic rules of "Look both ways before you cross the street," "Cross in the crosswalk," etc. are so important. Car vs. Man, Car Wins is an important point to remember because the fact is that it only takes one driver making one mistake to kill you. You have to assume the drivers of those cars ARE going to make those mistakes.

This is probably one of the reasons why automobiles kill more people in the US every year than any other weapon byfar. The drivers need to be careful but the pedestrians cannot be so naive or ignorant as to assume they can just blindly walk out into an intersection - ever. I've seen taxidrivers actually run through a crosswalk with people in it crossing legally. Not saying the taxidrivers should do that - but they do. And, it's awful and a complete disregard for human life. But, on the other end of the spectrum I see people practically everyday who seem almost suicidal in their behavior as pedestrians.

There's got to be common sense there!

I get incredibly frustrated on campus -- as a driver and as a pedestrian. As a driver, I'm more than willing to stop at all crosswalks to let pedestrians cross. However, I've seen kids run out (not a crosswalks) in front of not just cars but buses! As a pedestrian on / near campus, I'm frustrated because unlike those crazy kids, I'm following the rules and still every other driver seems to disregard them and put me at peril for no reason.

And saddest of all -- I'm sure there are many who are both the terrible pedestrian and terrible driver -- it just depends how they happen to be getting around that day.

[planet]

Casual spitting! I never saw this before we lived in Boston. Gross! People just spit on the sidewalk, out of their cars. It makes me sick. I have no problem with athletes spitting during or after races. Go figure.

Incorrect grammer and spelling in advertising. I know I shouldn't let it bother me as much as it does. I can't pass a McDonald's sign without wanting to correct their signs.

Casual spitting!

Oh, me frigging too! It's so disgusting! I once saw a kid spit and his mother turned to him and scolded him, saying "Don't spit on the sidewalk! You spit into the gutter!" I guess if people *have* to spit, I'd *prefer* they did it in the gutter...

As for the pedestrian thread... another pet peeve... pedestrians (and city bikers) who give me a bad name. My favorite are the mothers with babies on their hips, glaring at you in your car, daring you to hit them, as they cross illegally. OMG, don't get me started! Bikers who bike the wrong way on a one way street, don't wear helmets, or don't stop at stop signs (I almost collided with one who came up from behind me after I had stopped and was well into my turn). I just don't have that much faith in other people, so I do what I can to be safe.

The attitute out there is, 'I have a fortress of steel, f*ck your right-of-way, you wanna cross, I'll just hit ya!' It's a game of chicken when I do have the walk light.

Safety comes first. You look both ways and let a rude driver or one attempting to make an illegal turn do it or one who simply doesn't see you go - because your safety and well-being are more important.

I really wish I could have such a Zen-like approach to crossing. I wish I didn't care about anything but my safety, but every time I walk anywhere, a driver breaks the law and disregards my right-of-way, sometimes intentionally, and sometimes carelessly (IMO, one reason isn't better or worse than the other). I need that big-picture approach, but can't get past being "wronged". I know it sounds petty, but it's soooooo infuriating.

[Cumberland]

I am a grade A wuss, and the thing that would deter me from slapping someone's car is that they would get out and do something violent. What if you slapped the wrong person's car on the wrong day?

My irritations are TNTC but I will try to list some of varying degrees of importance:

Loose dogs that wander my neighborhood and bark at me in my own yard
Reverse discrimination
Proseltizing/evangelizing
Cruising in the passing lane on the interstate

I hope your fingers get better quickly.