Army Urology?

[seaside*bliss]

Here we are a month away from being finished with MS3. Away rotations are scheduled and everything is sent as necessary for Emergency Med away rotations/interviews. They are scheduled for August at Madigan and September at Brooke. Garrett LOVED his Gen Surg rotation 2 months ago (I have never seen his so happy as that month), but he scheduled an elective for this month with his program director who is a urologist. He has been his preceptor and let me tell you, Garrett fits right in. Out of 8 of his closest friends & family everyone has told him to do urology. A CNA said he is a natural, and she thinks he's found his niche. His program director/preceptor is encouraging him. He was 80% on ER before this month. He was an ER tech for 3.5 years before med school. Now he is seriously thinking urology.

So if you made it through all of that , let me ask you a few questions. How competitive is Army ER vs. Urology? I have read that there are two additional residency locations. Also, from what I have read it looks like it is a six year program including a intern year; is a year of research absolutely certain? How likely is it for an Army Urologist to get deployed after residency? Anyone know the difference of that compared to an Army ER? I have so many questions and am feeling a lot of pressure this late in the game! Match results will be out for us in 8 months!!!

How likely is it for an Army Urologist to get deployed after residency? Anyone know the difference of that compared to an Army ER?

Remember that Hussey's husband is a Pediatric Neurologist and he was deployed. Frankly, a urologist is a surgeon, which means he'd have more "useful" stuff for being deployed to a war zone than most other specialties (aside from ER, of course, but the point is they need surgeons).

[Vanquisher]

I can't speak to the liklihood of deployment in one specialty over another, but I would just assume that it's going to happen regardless of what specialty he chooses. If you want my advice, and you do, do ER. Surgery is for the birds. Can't speak a lot about urology, per se, but I know ortho bites the big one. Eh, what do I know.

Hear this med students:

Follow the ROAD to happiness! I have also sometimes seen ROADE, with the E for ER. So, DH had two best friends in med school. One went into ER and one went into ENT. Guy who went into ER worked literally half as many hours as dh in residency. Guy in ENT worked about 70-80% of the hours DH worked. Lots depends on your program, but don't be fooled specialty pick is huge. Oh, and their salaries post graduation? Nearly identical. ER is also a 3 year residency, whereas urology is 5 or 6. I would always opt for a shorter residency in giving advice, but that's just me - a jaded, bitter, hag.

Oh, and if you can get out of medicine all together, run now. I hear plumbing is a nice profession.

[moonlight]

No advice here! Best of luck. I always feel for all the med students that really struggle over picking a specialty. Everything feels so uncertain. Big hugs!!!

[bokelley]

I have always heard it was extremely competitive, but don't know that for sure. Could you do a Gen Surg residency, and then a fellow in Urology?

[Deebs]

We don't have any friends in the military who are in Uro. We do, however, have many EM friends in the military, including active duty, reservists, and national guard. They have all been deployed. More than once. And, they should be - it's pretty much why they went into EM and the military. DH has extreme guilt over the fact that he can't serve - the military really needs EPs overseas right now - our service men and women deserve it. As far as beyond the military, Urologists tend to do much better financially than EPs. While there is more training time involved, the end salary more than makes up for that (I listed the incomes below so you'd have an idea). I think it comes down to his gut feeling. Uro and EM are VERY different specialties. This is such a hard time. Most students really struggle with the specialty decision. Good luck in supporting him through it!

Urologists Overall
Mean: $399,385
Urologists in a Single Specialty Group
Mean: $403,420
Urologists in a Multi-specialty Group
Mean: $396,891
EMERGENCY MEDICINE
Mean: $258,088
Source: Physician Compensation and Production Survey 2007 Report based on 2006 Data, Extracted from Table 113A: Compensation, pg. 242

[poky]

Urologists Overall
Mean: $399,385
Urologists in a Single Specialty Group
Mean: $403,420
Urologists in a Multi-specialty Group
Mean: $396,891
EMERGENCY MEDICINE
Mean: $258,088
Source: Physician Compensation and Production Survey 2007 Report based on 2006 Data, Extracted from Table 113A: Compensation, pg. 242

I'm assuming this is non-military salaries, right? And averaged over the whole country - I'm reasonably sure location can make a pretty big difference, too.

I'd say assume he'll be deployed, and assume it'll be the same amount for both, since there's no real way to know ahead of time. What you DO know is the length of the residencies and the relative toughness and competitiveness of the residencies. (Uro was early match this year and had something like 70% match rate, didn't it? I don't know if normal match stuff applies to military, though...)

[DCJenn]

From the husband: do not assume that there's that much thought put in to which specialty will be sent over another. It's more about departmental needs at the time and who is available. I don't know any Army doc who hasn't deployed at least once. Assume that he's going to be deployed. I find it's easier just to assume it's going to happen. Really, it's more about what he's going to be happy doing and how long he wants to spend in the Army. Remember retirement pay goes up each year he's in. I have no idea how competetive either specialty might be- I'd imagine they're probably both pretty competitive TBH. Peggy's husband may have better insight into that issue. I think ER is a 3 year residency- so you'd be looking at 6 years total vs. 12 if urology is 1:1.

Jenn

[Deebs]

Sorry - I thought I had posted they were non-military salaries. Didn't know he was a lifer.

[peggyfromwastate]

I would say that ER docs deploy most often (along with GPs.) Army ER docs can expect to deploy once every 2-3 years or so. Urologists will deploy as General Surgeons. Guraranteed. But he may get away with only doing 1 tour, just depending on how long he's in. As a surgeon, you deploy only for 6 months (plus 2 months on either end for training, etc.) vs ER the deployment is longer (I've heard of ER docs deployed up to 15 months in the field.) The reason for the disparity is that surgeons threw a royal fit about being *away* for that long claiming that their surgical skills suffered too much. CAVEAT: they can deploy you in an adminitrative role for as long as they need you. That's a possiblity for those poor souls that they just can't seem to plug in anywhere useful (like interventional radiologists- welcome to the world of being a "brigade surgeon".)

As far as the competetiveness, it's definitely a year to year. DH's year they did not fill Urology. Lifestyle for Urology is supposed to be the best of surgical subspeciaties, but it's definitely not for everyone. DH hated his Uro rotation. Hated. DH's year, ER was quite competetive. There are far fewer training spots for ER.

If there are a lot of qualified candidates for a subspecialty, the ARMY will send some out to do civiilian residencies. ENT was a super competetive specialty for DH's applicant year. The ARMY ended up accepting 7 to the military training sites PLUS 3 who are training at civilian sites. The Dr Evil part of me is just waiting for these HPSP-Civ Residency people to be deployed. BRAAAAHAHHHAHAHA. They are in for a shocker, having virtually no military experience other than accepting the check every month. Ka-Ching...

So, that's a possibility. The ARMY will make spots for surgical subspecialties if they really like a candidate. Sounds like your DH is getting good feedback from the people he's rotated with, so that's a def point in his favor.

There is the payback to consider for this. I don't know if all the URO sites are a 6 year program- I think it is at WR, but I'm not sure about the other training sites. Regardless, for ENT the payback is for the medical school time. So payback should still just be 4 years for your HPSP years, unless you have some other payback obligations. We have an additional 2 year payback for a fellowship is DH does one, but we're lifers so what's another year. Or 2.

DH really didn't mind at all talking with your DH before-- if you need him to talk to him about Uro (Dh knows more about Uro than he does about ER, esp since he did the gen surg intern year with the other Uro residents) just PM me and we can set it up.

[peggyfromwastate]

Oh yeah-- have him get on the phone to PDs to get an idea of if he can rotate with URO in the fall at this late date. That will give you a GOOD idea of how comptetetive URO is looking for next year. If there aren't any spots, bad sign. He could start with Madigan and Brooke since he's already planning to be there.

Don't worry about changing everything last minute. It happens all.the.time. The PD directors don't get uptight about it. Ultimately they want the people to work in a field that they want to be in.

[Meenah]

My OB-Gyn is Army Reserves, and he has been deployed twice, because he is a surgeon!

[KCwife]

Sorry, not military... but had to post... Google "Richard Jadick". Our friend Rich finished his urology residency here last year. He was deployed during residency (Navy not Army).

[peggyfromwastate]

Navy v Army makes a huge difference. Huge. I don't know of any interruptions to residency for ARMY surgical specialists while completing residency at a military training site.

[peggyfromwastate]

Sorry, not military... but had to post... Google "Richard Jadick". Our friend Rich finished his urology residency here last year. He was deployed during residency (Navy not Army).

I just looked up the wikipidia and it said he volunteered to deploy and then after returning from Iraq he started residency? The Wiki has lots of contradictions... Care to clarify?