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OK, I took too long of a nap today and now have insomnia, so I was reading back over this thread and wish I could add a few things to my other posts (edit button?) rather than having to add yet another post (yes, I look like a post-hog ). Most of all I wanted to go through and reply to Claudia's post although I have addressed some of the things she stated in an earlier post of mine....
"Jennifer:
What do you think about sending kids off to college/university at the young age of 16? I know that we could wish all day and all night that more kids did this, and more kids started college at 16, etc. but the reality is that the severe majority of college/university freshmen are 18yo. I know that I felt terribly awkward just entering college at *17* years old. Kids, even college kids, can be cruel and I would foresee the kids thinking who the heck is this genius wonderkid? Then, we get into the entire college/university social scene and while you may be against drinking, kids will experiment and . . .
It just seems as if it would foster some social maladjustment and little peer interaction."
I agree with you that a 16 year old should not just be dumped into a university setting. If I did send my child away to a university at that age I'd make sure it was to BYU because they have very strict curfews, regulations controlling all drinking activity (ie none), no co-ed situations, etc. I think other likely scenarios are the ones I stated in the above post (ie the UNT TAMS program, community college while at home until 18 and then transfer to a large university, travelling, etc.) My husband and I have spoken often about his experiences in college at 16, 17 , and 18 vs my experiences in public high school at the same time period. I would trade quite a bit to have had his experiences! He made it through a non-religious institution at 16 without ever having tasted alcohol, doing drugs, having sex, feeling "ostracized" (he's still in contact with a load of friends from that time-period of his life), or any of the other "normal" problems kids in high school have. I think it's another myth that kids can't function in a college setting before an arbitrary age. As long as thier parents are helping them make wise choices according to maturity levels that is....
"I'm not opposed to homeschooling but I think there are comparable opportunities available out there. A lot of it depends on where you live of course - but if you are in any major/slightly major metropolitan city, surely there is a school there that can accomodate your children. We have 5yo kids who come into the bookstore and they are already reading chapter books. . .a lot of them attend the catholic, jewish, or independent private schools."
There are plenty of private schools in this area - in fact I live only a few miles away from three of the top private schools in the nation! Problem? I cannot afford the tuition. There is a reason they are labeled "rich kids' schools." In fact, I cannot afford ANY private school at this point. Why? Because I am among the poor in this nation. I grew up poorer than I am now so this is nothing new to me. I think I was the poster child for the school voucher cause. Vouchers would be the only way my kids could attend the "top" private schools.
"And re: the "socialization" that occurs in public schools, I think this is an area where a mother could play a vital role in explaining that what the "other" kids do at school is *not* appropriate behavior."
You can explain what is and is not proper behavior, however, if your children are exposed to inappropriate behavior 30+ hours per a week outside of your influence it's going to rub off and affect them!
" I would never, ever wish harm on my kids at all but I think it is important for them to be exposed to the good. . .and the bad. I don't want them to grow up with rose-colored glasses on - how much of the "bad" part of society and people can you show them as a homeschooler?"
Are you saying that I should send my children to public school in order to experience the "bad" part of society? Or are you suggesting I take my kids on a field trip to the local county jail? I know I'm being sarcastic, but I really don't understand this!
"Are you going to drive them through the projects?"
Are you telling me you are going to drive your children through the projects? Have you ever BEEN to "the projects". I grew up in a part of town that was just a few steps above "the projects" - there is absolutely no benefit to putting yourself or your children at risk by going through such areas.
" And how are they going to learn how to interact with *all* sorts of people of different backgrounds, races, etc? You can't exactly walk your children up to a "diverse" person and say "hi, my kids are learning how to interact with all types of people. Could they talk to you for a few minutes?" And these are exactly the type of people that they will be forced to interact with in their future jobs, etc - even college professors! I just see homeschooling as forcing your children to live in this bubble that is not a realistic representation of what they will encounter as an adult. "
I already mentioned in a previous post what my response is to this argument: (1)public schools do not foster "diversity", (2)my children, having never stepped foot in a public school, have friends from about a dozen different "backgrounds" - cultural, religious, and cognitive. In addition my children, by being homeschooled, will be around diversity of another sort that is not allowed in "formal schooling": age. I DO intend for my children to have friends of varying ages and to actually interact with adults of different ages., and (3)once you come to know enough people of diverse backgrounds you realize that learning diversity is essentially learning that people are the same no matter what their background, skin pigmentation, religion, etc. Formal schools don't have a monopoly on teaching diversity - that is another myth.
"I don't view my public school background as one of captivity. It was a rich and healthy experience - fortunately, I had parents who pushed me to excel, and I think that I turned out quite all right"
Fortunately I had parents who also pushed me to excel - and that is the reason I turned out all right as well. Unfortunately we had to drag the teachers, principals, and superintendant along with us - kicking and screaming the entire way! See my above posts for examples.
"I fully intend to enroll my future children in either public or private schools - I wouldn't enroll them in private schools to indoctrinate them with a certain ideology but possibly to engage them more with the arts. "
If you can afford private school and believe it is best for your kids more power to you! Shop around by all means and put your money into what you think is the best education for your children. Those of us who are poor do not have that option for private education. We must either use our children as guinea pigs and attempt to change systems and values that are not good for children's education OR we can choose not to gamble and instead homeschool our kids. Every one of the families I know who homeschools has been poor and has faced this choice.
"I sense another healthy debate here! "
You betcha sister!
"Jennifer:
What do you think about sending kids off to college/university at the young age of 16? I know that we could wish all day and all night that more kids did this, and more kids started college at 16, etc. but the reality is that the severe majority of college/university freshmen are 18yo. I know that I felt terribly awkward just entering college at *17* years old. Kids, even college kids, can be cruel and I would foresee the kids thinking who the heck is this genius wonderkid? Then, we get into the entire college/university social scene and while you may be against drinking, kids will experiment and . . .
It just seems as if it would foster some social maladjustment and little peer interaction."
I agree with you that a 16 year old should not just be dumped into a university setting. If I did send my child away to a university at that age I'd make sure it was to BYU because they have very strict curfews, regulations controlling all drinking activity (ie none), no co-ed situations, etc. I think other likely scenarios are the ones I stated in the above post (ie the UNT TAMS program, community college while at home until 18 and then transfer to a large university, travelling, etc.) My husband and I have spoken often about his experiences in college at 16, 17 , and 18 vs my experiences in public high school at the same time period. I would trade quite a bit to have had his experiences! He made it through a non-religious institution at 16 without ever having tasted alcohol, doing drugs, having sex, feeling "ostracized" (he's still in contact with a load of friends from that time-period of his life), or any of the other "normal" problems kids in high school have. I think it's another myth that kids can't function in a college setting before an arbitrary age. As long as thier parents are helping them make wise choices according to maturity levels that is....
"I'm not opposed to homeschooling but I think there are comparable opportunities available out there. A lot of it depends on where you live of course - but if you are in any major/slightly major metropolitan city, surely there is a school there that can accomodate your children. We have 5yo kids who come into the bookstore and they are already reading chapter books. . .a lot of them attend the catholic, jewish, or independent private schools."
There are plenty of private schools in this area - in fact I live only a few miles away from three of the top private schools in the nation! Problem? I cannot afford the tuition. There is a reason they are labeled "rich kids' schools." In fact, I cannot afford ANY private school at this point. Why? Because I am among the poor in this nation. I grew up poorer than I am now so this is nothing new to me. I think I was the poster child for the school voucher cause. Vouchers would be the only way my kids could attend the "top" private schools.
"And re: the "socialization" that occurs in public schools, I think this is an area where a mother could play a vital role in explaining that what the "other" kids do at school is *not* appropriate behavior."
You can explain what is and is not proper behavior, however, if your children are exposed to inappropriate behavior 30+ hours per a week outside of your influence it's going to rub off and affect them!
" I would never, ever wish harm on my kids at all but I think it is important for them to be exposed to the good. . .and the bad. I don't want them to grow up with rose-colored glasses on - how much of the "bad" part of society and people can you show them as a homeschooler?"
Are you saying that I should send my children to public school in order to experience the "bad" part of society? Or are you suggesting I take my kids on a field trip to the local county jail? I know I'm being sarcastic, but I really don't understand this!
"Are you going to drive them through the projects?"
Are you telling me you are going to drive your children through the projects? Have you ever BEEN to "the projects". I grew up in a part of town that was just a few steps above "the projects" - there is absolutely no benefit to putting yourself or your children at risk by going through such areas.
" And how are they going to learn how to interact with *all* sorts of people of different backgrounds, races, etc? You can't exactly walk your children up to a "diverse" person and say "hi, my kids are learning how to interact with all types of people. Could they talk to you for a few minutes?" And these are exactly the type of people that they will be forced to interact with in their future jobs, etc - even college professors! I just see homeschooling as forcing your children to live in this bubble that is not a realistic representation of what they will encounter as an adult. "
I already mentioned in a previous post what my response is to this argument: (1)public schools do not foster "diversity", (2)my children, having never stepped foot in a public school, have friends from about a dozen different "backgrounds" - cultural, religious, and cognitive. In addition my children, by being homeschooled, will be around diversity of another sort that is not allowed in "formal schooling": age. I DO intend for my children to have friends of varying ages and to actually interact with adults of different ages., and (3)once you come to know enough people of diverse backgrounds you realize that learning diversity is essentially learning that people are the same no matter what their background, skin pigmentation, religion, etc. Formal schools don't have a monopoly on teaching diversity - that is another myth.
"I don't view my public school background as one of captivity. It was a rich and healthy experience - fortunately, I had parents who pushed me to excel, and I think that I turned out quite all right"
Fortunately I had parents who also pushed me to excel - and that is the reason I turned out all right as well. Unfortunately we had to drag the teachers, principals, and superintendant along with us - kicking and screaming the entire way! See my above posts for examples.
"I fully intend to enroll my future children in either public or private schools - I wouldn't enroll them in private schools to indoctrinate them with a certain ideology but possibly to engage them more with the arts. "
If you can afford private school and believe it is best for your kids more power to you! Shop around by all means and put your money into what you think is the best education for your children. Those of us who are poor do not have that option for private education. We must either use our children as guinea pigs and attempt to change systems and values that are not good for children's education OR we can choose not to gamble and instead homeschool our kids. Every one of the families I know who homeschools has been poor and has faced this choice.
"I sense another healthy debate here! "
You betcha sister!
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