Getting My Boys to Sleep

[MrsK]

Any suggestions for getting the K Bros to Go The F**k to Sleep? Bedtime is pretty much the only time that they are together relatively unsupervised and they take advantage. They pop out of their beds 60 times, wrestle and fight over pillows and teddy bears, build forts with their blankets, run up and down the hall, empty the drawers of their dresser, call us in to beg for water/bandaids/extra blankets/kisses, demand we clip their toenails, climb into each other's beds, sneak downstairs, go into the bathroom to squirt water at each other from the bath toys . . . I just pulled K2 out of the bathroom sink. We've been through this before. The old barter systems, CIO, sticking to a predictable bedtime routine, silently returning them to their beds 700 times, and threats aren't working. We've tried separating them, sending one downstairs for Time Out (sitting in the corner while daddy finishes his notes or sitting in the dark hallway just outside the bedroom) but then they fight over who gets to go in TO (I guess sitting with daddy is a treat, however boring) and just start up again as soon as they are reunited. I really don't care if they lay in their beds talking/joking/singing/looking at books until they fall asleep as long as they are in their beds and not wrecking havoc.

They still nap in the afternoons. Both boys start to fall apart around 2PM so I usher the two of them weeping and protesting up the stairs every afternoon for "just a couple minutes of quiet time". They are both sound asleep within minutes of laying down. They wake at about 4pm and then bedtime has been around 8-8:30 pm. Some nights, they are still awake well after 10PM. They wake around 6AM every morning on their own regardless of the time that they got to bed the night before.

[MrsK]

BTW, they are now 4yo and 2.5yo. I know that getting kids this age to go to sleep can be so totally enraging. Right now, I'm trying to get my own sleep deprived self to bed. They are standing outside my bedroom door singing "Jingle Bells" at the top of their lungs.

[Sheherezade]

Around this time, I read them long books at bedtime - big kid chapter books and they'd get a chapter or two each night. That helped them settle. Afterwards, I'd sit in the room on the floor with my own book and direct them back to bed whenever they made a move or made noise. I was basically like an old school librarian with a book light until they were asleep.

The big chapter book reads were a part of the bedtime routine for years - until they got impatient and were able to read ahead in the big books themselves. We did HP and many other series that way.

[Pollyanna]

Does K1 have to nap? That is a really late nap, if dd4 napped that late at even 3years she would be up until 11-11:30. I know he is likely tired but is there anyway to do quiet time for him and nap for K2 (2 is still pretty late for a nap though)? I'd try for a noonish nap for K2 and a 7pm bedtime for both. And yes on Angie's suggestions for chapter books!!!

[MrsK]

Does K1 have to nap? That is a really late nap, if dd4 napped that late at even 3years she would be up until 11-11:30. I know he is likely tired but is there anyway to do quiet time for him and nap for K2 (2 is still pretty late for a nap though)? I'd try for a noonish nap for K2 and a 7pm bedtime for both. And yes on Angie's suggestions for chapter books!!!

Preschool pick up for both of them is at 1:30. They are usually exhausted when I'm loading them in the car and fall asleep in the car on the way home. K1 seems to need the nap more than K2 most days. He sort of sundowns/has difficulty concentrating and controlling his behaviour if he doesn't nap. If they don't nap, they fall asleep at 4PM and cannot be roused for dinner. In that case, they wake between 8PM and 10PM demanding food (never at the same time so dinner comes in late night shifts) or they sleep through and wake around 3 or 4 AM.

I don't think I can drop the nap yet and the preschool schedule prevents me from moving it back to 1PM as it was before we moved.

[Pollyanna]

Preschool pick up for both of them is at 1:30. They are usually exhausted when I'm loading them in the car and fall asleep in the car on the way home. K1 seems to need the nap more than K2 most days. He sort of sundowns/has difficulty concentrating and controlling his behaviour if he doesn't nap. If they don't nap, they fall asleep at 4PM and cannot be roused for dinner. In that case, they wake between 8PM and 10PM demanding food (never at the same time so dinner comes in late night shifts) or they sleep through and wake around 3 or 4 AM.

I don't think I can drop the nap yet and the preschool schedule prevents me from moving it back to 1PM as it was before we moved.

That's rough. I don't have a good solution because I really think a huge part of the issue is the time of the nap. But I understand that in between time when they still need a nap but then that nap messes up bedtime. Does the school have nap time? That could be a huge help for you.

[spotty_dog]

I tried never to let toddler naps last past 3pm. Even if it meant they only got a 20 minute catnap and I had to wake them screaming. :\ I'm sorry, I am sure that time is precious! But healthy sleep, especially if it begets longer nighttime sleep and maybe even slightly calmer daytime energy, could be just as precious.

I really like the book "Sleepless in America" and its suggestions for creating a "glidepath to sleep"; K1 particularly is old enough to use some of the ideas for helping the child to identify his own tensions and work on ways to release them so he can drift off.

[MrsK]

That's rough. I don't have a good solution because I really think a huge part of the issue is the time of the nap. But I understand that in between time when they still need a nap but then that nap messes up bedtime. Does the school have nap time? That could be a huge help for you.

They don't; I wish they did. In his last school, the kids napped right after lunch at about 1PM. Actually, his current school has an "afternoons are fun" program that goes on to 3:30PM without napping and then some of the children are actually bused to other programs or extra-curriculars after that. These are preschool and pre-K aged children. I did not enroll the kids in the afternoon program and I pick my kids up right after lunch because there is no way they could hold out until 3:30 without totally going to pieces. I've been wanting to enroll K1 in swimming or gymnastics or something but everything is at about 3:30 in the afternoon which would mean that he and K2 would have to forego the nap. FWIW, K1's teacher said that it's about 50/50 on whether the kids in her class (all within 3 mo of K1's age) nap in the afternoons; about half of them still nap. He seems to be particularly sensitive to sleep/napping.

[diggitydot]

Getting My Boys to Sleep

Our oldest needed at least one solid 2-hour nap each day until she hit Kindergarten. I say don't put the kibosh in the napping if they seem to really need one.

They're active, inquisitive, clever little guys. Bedtime will be all about keeping them engaged until they drop. I really like the idea of quiet time with a long-ish story to help them wind down.

FWIW, I think some of the stuff is sensory-seeking behavior for K1. Bedtime is when a lot of little ones are alone with their own thoughts for the first time all day. That could lead to him noticing things like toenails needing clipped or feeling thirsty. Maybe keeping his mind engaged on stories will work until he's too tired to keep his eyes open?

[Pollyanna]

Wow, that's crazy talk for a preschool not to have nap. I've actually have never experienced a preschool not including a nap after lunch. Dd4 has a two hour nap time. They don't have to sleep but they have to lay quietly. I know this is an exhausting time but you may find K1 sleep needs change dramatically in the next 6 months. I know you need nighttime help and I know you're concerned about how you're going to do this when baby arrives but somehow things do seem to fall into place. For now I would likely stay with the boys until they fall asleep because when they're alone they seem to get into trouble. Unfortunately I think part if their issue is that by 10pm they are over tired and a bit slap happy, thus all the silliness. Actually, I might try to see what happens if you try an 8-8:30 bedtime. And get the book Allison suggested, I've heard good things.

[L.Jane]

When R (afternoon charge) still needed his nap but we didn't want to interfere with bedtime we would wake him up after 45 min to an hour. I didn't read through everything so I dont know if you have tried that yet, but its a thought to try it for a week and see if it helps?

[MrsK]

Ok. So today they went down for their naps around 2 and I woke them at 3. K2 jumped out of bed the instant I turned on the light. K1 really struggled to wake up; K2 and I had to practically drag him out of bed. I'll try some longer books tonight and see how it goes. It would be really nice to ring in the New Year with DrK and not be thoroughly irritated and exhausted from the boys' bedtime antics.

[PrincessFiona]

What you are describing is exactly why we gave up afternoon naps. It helped immensely once we got through the initial phasing them out. In fact, only one of my kids (Aidan) was ever able to nap adequately in the early afternoon and still fall asleep at a reasonable hour. It stinks to give up the afternoon nap though!

Good Luck!

Kris

[moonlight]

Is it not safe to lock them in their room? We are having nap issues too, but the teachers are dealing with it for now. I can really tell the difference when DD hasn't had a nap at school.

[MrsK]

Is it not safe to lock them in their room? We are having nap issues too, but the teachers are dealing with it for now. I can really tell the difference when DD hasn't had a nap at school.

I've tried it. They still escape! IDK how they are doing it. K1 is some kind of magician.