The Math Wars

[SoonerTexan]

Oh wow. Jeez.

I can count the amount of times on one hand my parents sat down and helped me with homework, outside of buying specific supplies for projects, etc. Guess that wont be the case for me!

Math is interesting, though. It's the one subject I never "got." In every other subject, I understood the context, cause and effect, etc. but with math it was always a "memorize the steps" way of survival. I don't understand why I never got it--maybe crappy teachers when I was younger? I do feel I never learned the context well in my younger years, so by the time I was older, it was just too late. That being said, I still got As in math all the way through high school until Bs and one (well deserved) C in Calculus in college, so I was able to survive. It was just extraordinarily painful.

Here's the other thing, though...I don't use 70% of what I was taught and don't expect I ever will, especially now that I have forgotten most of it. Sometimes it feels like a lot of it was a big, fat, painful waste of time.

[v-girl]

We use Saxon in our homeschooling.

A friend has kids in Plano ISD (outside Dallas). The problems she has had with her kids' curriculum from their public elementary school are ridiculous. She actually tracked down the employee who chose the curriculum to give unsolicited feedback. She reteaches her kids at home. Yes, I told her she may as well homeschool.

[Amiens]

In Idaho they have adopted "the Core Curriculum Standards" and I am not entirely sure if the school districts will use EM. The school my 4th and 5th grader attend uses Saxon Math, although my 4th grader's teacher informed us that she won't be using Saxon this year in order to get on board with the CCS that will be implemented next school year.

My Kindergartener is attending private school this year, and her school uses Saxon also. We've been really happy with Saxon Math.

Now my 1st grader, is at new school this year (long story), and his school uses Excel Math. I still prefer Saxon Math, and actually I wish he were attending the same school as his older brother and sister where an accelerated curriculum, and wholistic teaching is instituted, but that is another story.

[scrub-jay]

Is this curriculum usually determined at a state-level or a district-level?

[Phoebe]

Is this curriculum usually determined at a state-level or a district-level?

There are both. The district usually mandates which specific curriculum is taught.

[Sheherezade]

Our district (same as Deeb's) is moving to the Core Curriculum as well. I haven't heard about the move to Everyday Math. We didn't have that when my kids were in the younger grades. The math program here in the upper grades (6th grade and up) is very strong with many kids finishing AP Calculus AB and BC by graduation. That said, when my kids were in K-4, we bitched endlessly about the Math program - something called Trailblazers that involved an insane amount of repetition and seemed to move at a snail's pace. In the end, I think learning that it was a "spiral" and that it would continually spiral back to repeat material years after its introduction helped me make my peace with it. Also, my kids clearly learned from it.

I do see a lot of negative changes in curriculum related to Core Curriculum and state standards. It's infuriating. If anything, I'm rushing to get my kids past the point in education here where the curriculum is locked in; in the high school, they have access to more variety and a lot of AP stuff to fulfill requirements so I'm hoping i may squeak past any of these nasty changes with my youngest in 8th grade this year!

I think it's awful that high performing districts are altering their unique curriculum strictly based on state and federal decrees. Bleh. That's one department I'd torpedo. Department of Education. And I'm a card carrying liberal.

[Deebs]

Angie - I actually have no idea if EDM is in consideration (further down the line in my research). They are choosing new curriculum for Math in K-4 although Trailblazers is still in the running. Trailblazers itself does have some similar ideas to EDM (like the spiraling), but is supposed to be more effective with more skill focus.

[mommax3]

Curriculum choice is driven by $$$, no doubt about it. Our district no longer adopts textbooks at all because the eventual goal is to have all students using ipads with ebooks as textbooks....which I guess will be great when that happens, but right now, only the HS students have ipads (and remember I posted that my senior owed close to $600 in *book rental*?) and we are taping books together at my school (grades 4-8) to make them last another year....also, our social studies textbooks still reference the Soviet Union!!!!! Indiana has now mandated that HS students must take math all four years, and even if you take Algebra in 7th or 8th grade, you will still have to take a math class each year in grades 9-12. Why? My middle son struggles with math. I think with help he will get through algebra and geometry, but beyond that, I really don't see the point. He has no interest in anything remotely related to math. I don't use anything past geometry in my daily life, and I suspect I am better at math than most of the population. Are there really tons of jobs going unfilled because kids don't take enough math courses? Why are so many college grads having trouble finding work, then? I think people who write math textbooks and math standards are fixing things at state and nat'l levels in order to keep themselves employed. Please don't misunderstand me....my oldest in in Calculus, and he should be. I am not against math education at all....but I would like to see a little common sense in how we educate our kids! When I was in high school, I sat through about a week of pre-calc and when they started talking about imaginary numbers, I opted out. I was pretty sure I would be a teacher of some kind (NOT upper-level math ) and knew I didn't need more abstract math in my head. I have never been sorry. I would like for all kids (and their parents) to have the ability to make the same kind of choices.

[Pollyanna]

Sally, you bring up a great point about math education. There seems to be this huge push to move kids forward at a rapid rate. This works okay for kids that excel in math but what about the other 90% of the population? And even for the kids that get through calcnon high school most colleges we talked to want kids to repeat it in college because the college course is a different intensity than calc taught in high school. So then what's the push if your kids are going to repeat this stuff in college?

[Sheherezade]

I agree. Here, they've linked an "Honor's Diploma" to taking math all four years. Actually, you have to take four years of math, english, ss and science as well as 3 years of foreign language and 2 years of fine arts. So... not much room for electives if you want that. It's pretty common too so most of the upper level kids take a high load.

[mommax3]

Yes, Angie, we have that too....and now it is ramped up even more. And electives? What electives? They have been cut *to the bone* because why staff it if the state doesn't think it's important? Such a sore subject for me!

[mommax3]

Pollyanna, what is happening here is that even high-performing kids are opting out of taking Algebra early because they don't want to *have* to take Calculus later on, and I don't blame them. Getting started in math early used to mean they would free up time in their schedules later in HS for electives, but here, at least, our electives have been cut back so much that there wouldn't be electives for
them to take, even if they had room in their schedules. It's sad. I *hate* the push towards taking higher and higher-level classes. Many teenagers need the maturity an extra year or two brings in order to do well with college-level material. Also, DH and I both received (and have appreciated) an excellent liberal arts education, where our coursework was designed to dovetail across disciplines and departments. I want the same thing for my kids, not a hodge-podge of college classes taken from whatever institution/teacher with a master's degree in a particular subject. If you have a high-performing kid, though, that's the only option once they reach a certain level. I would really like to see more depth in the courses that already exist, rather than the constant need to go ahead.

[Amiens]

I think it's awful that high performing districts are altering their unique curriculum strictly based on state and federal decrees. Bleh. That's one department I'd torpedo. Department of Education. And I'm a card carrying liberal.

I concur. Granted ID is one of the lowest in the nation when it comes to education, but due to where we live we have the top district in the state, but it is the rural farming communities of the state that lack in education. Our State Super Tom "Lunatic" recently made some education reforms that I don't necessarily agree with all of them.

Sally was the $600 fee for the IPad or textbooks? Our state is pushing for all HS to have an IPad or Laptop funded by the state, and by graduation so many credits have to have been completed on-line. I am uneasy about the cost of technology - upkeep, up to date, etc. vs. buying new textbooks. Also "electives" have been cut even at the elementary level in our residential school district (MSD)- Choir is not offered at my 1st graders school, but it is at the neighboring district (BSD) that my two oldest are sent to. In MSD if you want to participate in band, sports, etc. it is in an extra $100 per activity, where as band is offered free of charge and part of the curriculum starting in 5th grade in BSD. Art at both schools is purely based on parent volunteers.

I wish we would stop bureau-creating and start preparing and educating our children.

[mommax3]

The district received a grant for the ipads, so the fee for that is "only" $90 a year. So $500 was for books and other fees....I emailed 3 different people (co-workers, remember) and got the runaround. Finally felt like I needed to drop it b/c it is a small district and I like my job. The ipads are ridiculous if we are still going to pay so much for books, and even more ridiculous b/c our computer labs are so badly in need of upgrades. It is all about whatever will get the most attention/whatever is perceived to be most cutting-edge.

[houseelf]

I find myself nodding and saying "PREACH IT SISTA!" to several of these comments.

It is all about whatever will get the most attention/whatever is perceived to be most cutting-edge.

Yeah. There is no weighing of whether a decision is fiscally sustainable. In this district there is a ridiculous amount of funding (highest property taxes in the tristate, over $200,000 annual additional funding from PSA, extensive private donations for music, sports, etcetera, plus the town just past an additional funds levy). I want the very best for my kids too, but is all of this reasonable and sustainable over the long haul? I'm not sure a business would survive on this model. (This is my VERY politically incorrect inner monologue and I did indeed vote for the levy).

I wish we would stop bureau-creating and start preparing and educating our children.

OMG yes. Those fooking tests are all encompassing.

RE: supplement? Everything from gifted programming to speech therapy to the arts have been cut. If your child is gifted, they will receive the federally mandated 90 minutes in third grade and then be sent back to the classroom to study a curriculum that they mastered a few grades ago. (Aside: Of course my child is chatty, she is bored!) If your kid has speech needs, he will only receive it if it impairs his education, otherwise you best pony up for a private therapist. Your child will be assigned extensive projects that necessitate group work or parental supervision or weird supplies. Both of my older kids needed lots of help memorizing math facts at home. The schools expect the parents to take this on.

These are only the things that I have experienced, YMMV. In fact, I'd be interested to hear everyone else's take on the need to supplement in their home.

(exit this thread singing Pink Floyd's "We don't need no education...")