Polar Express Day

[MAPPLEBUM]

I'm a total outsider taking part in this conversation since I don't have kids but I feel like you went through the correct pathways of saying "hey, I'm not cool with this." and they said what should have amounted to "we'll keep it P.C." So at that point, in my mind, if this teacher didn't know she should be keeping her personal...can I even say beliefs?... to herself she definitely should have known after that conversation. You didn't retaliate so more than ever all she needed to do was refrain from bringing any of the big topics of the movie into reality. I'm not an elementary school teacher but a large contingent of my students are under the age of 10. I'm absolutely horrified that this woman, whose career is in early childhood education, behaved this way. Let me be clear, in order to fall in line with whatever kind of value set a family has all you have to do is stop talking and listen to the child. It's written all over them, even without talking to the parent. I'm just horrified.

Part of me thinks you should invite her over for dinner. And that's really just because I can't think of a suitable smack down. If you can't control her behavior you might as well make her your friend?

[MrsK]

She *was* my friend....at least an ally with regards to K1's educational needs. Now it's just awkward.

Also, I'm wondering how much of his individual educational needs play into this. Most of the kids aren't thinking about religion the way he does. They either believe in Santa or don't. They aren't looking for reason.

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[Sheherezade]

My advice is to schedule a talk with the administration. Frame what you want to say based on what you know about them. This is clearly an issue for your family and will be for awhile. Maybe this is just the teacher, and it isn't the same in other classrooms. You LIKE her in other regards, so maybe the administration just needs to figure out how to educate their staff about secular Christmas and how that's handled in the public school. If I understand you correctly, you don't want to be the Grinch and cancel Christmas. You would,just like some sensitivity to the problems this "fun" Christmas stuff causes for your children. Can you imagine something better? What could,you suggest?

My guess is that the teacher has no idea this went over so poorly with you. She thinks it's not religious and its a fun magical thing to do with kids. I'm sure she has the best intentions, and I wouldn't want to stomp on them. She's just unaware. The trick is how to change that within the school in the most gentle and positive way possible. I'd give it some thought and maybe approach it after the holidays so it's clear that it is a long term issue, by a short term one. Kind of a "heads up" about how something was perceived from an understanding Jewish family that understands public education for a large class of little ones is tricky.

Angie

[MrsK]

My advice is to schedule a talk with the administration. Frame what you want to say based on what you know about them. This is clearly an issue for your family and will be for awhile. Maybe this is just the teacher, and it isn't the same in other classrooms. You LIKE her in other regards, so maybe the administration just needs to figure out how to educate their staff about secular Christmas and how that's handled in the public school. If I understand you correctly, you don't want to be the Grinch and cancel Christmas. You would,just like some sensitivity to the problems this "fun" Christmas stuff causes for your children. Can you imagine something better? What could,you suggest?

My guess is that the teacher has no idea this went over so poorly with you. She thinks it's not religious and its a fun magical thing to do with kids. I'm sure she has the best intentions, and I wouldn't want to stomp on them. She's just unaware. The trick is how to change that within the school in the most gentle and positive way possible. I'd give it some thought and maybe approach it after the holidays so it's clear that it is a long term issue, by a short term one. Kind of a "heads up" about how something was perceived from an understanding Jewish family that understands public education for a large class of little ones is tricky.

Angie

You are making sense. I just don't know how to do it in a way that will make sense to the teacher who is clearly blind to it without over shooting my mark.


This bell thing.... It would be like making a hannukah presentation to the class and saying that I am personally testifying to the events because I dated Judah Maccabee in high school and and I was there when the temple was destroyed; if they can see the light from the menorah, then they also believe that Gd blessed the Jewish people. Totally offensive, right?

While I don't want to be a grinch, I don't think that religion should be discussed in a public school kindergarten. I would prefer that the school remained neutral and didn't have Christmas trees and whatnot in the halls. In that regard, I am not an understanding Jewish family. I'm totally baffled by the necessity for Christmas, Hannukah or any other religious celebrations in a public school. If I set forth that position, everyone shuts down and screams that I'm declaring war on Christmas.

Someone asked about Valentines Day a while back....not thrilled with the school celebrating a saint's day but I tolerate it because it's one day. Christmas goes on forever and it's everywhere. The only safe harbor is home (but barely if you watch TV or listen to the radio) and then my kid brings home a bell and tells his siblings to gather round and tell him if they hear it ringing....then they're believers too.

I would prefer no holidays in school but I'm sensitive enough to the community surrounding me that I know that position would sound unreasonable. So, have your holidays but don't tell my kids what to believe. And don't appropriate hannukah or treat it like some sort of consolation prize for the Jewish kids.

[civilspouse]

I bet the thought had not occured to her to associate Santa and Christmas trees with religion. We celebrate Christmas because that is what DH and I grew up with but we are not religious. Growing up in church the message was always to focus on "the reason for the season" and not get wrapped up in the secular parts of the holiday like santa, trees, and presents. She probably thinks that she is stearing clear of religion by not having a nativity and talking about the birth of Jesus.

That being said even if she was oblivious, she asked for your opinion and disregarded it when you explained the issue. This thread has really opened my eyes. I had not really thought of many Christmas traditions as religious but they completely are. I think just talking to her about how these things like the bell have caused some issues at home might help her to see your side. So sorry you are having to deal with this.

[MrsK]

Obviously, I know that she and the librarian didn't conspire to indoctrinate my child. They are just celebrating their holiday in the most secular way they know how. I'm going to talk with some other Jewish parents and some of our rabbis to try to formulate a reasonably sensitive response and suggestions for modifications to the curriculum. I don't want to start a riot.

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[MrsK]

Ugh. I'm just not going to win this one. I ran into the teacher at school and K1 started blabing about the bell and "you didn't do what you said" and so forth. She was looking at me with a big questioning face so I told her what happened with the kids and the bell and that it surprised me because I had no idea they were going to take watching the movie that far. (She didn't tell us before about the librarian and the bells and the tickets, etc. We were just told that they were going to watch the movie in their pjs and eat cookies. If she had shared the lesson plan like I requested, I would have been prepared.) She said that we should have opted out of the movie because she can't not do what she planned for 19 other children. (There are 21 children, 2 are Jewish. So, I guess me and K1's friend's mom were the only objectors.) I told her that asking Jews to opt out of a class discussion about religion is like saying, "We're having a discussion about race; if any brown people are uncomfortable with it, they are excused." She looked at me blankly and said, "Yeah?" Like, she really thought it made sense to excuse brown people from a discussion about race. I just changed the subject. It really wasn't something I was willing to get into while standing on the sidewalk in front of the school. The whole issue is really over her head.

[SuzySunshine]

As a mom at a catholic school I'm obviously on the other end of this spectrum but do have one question - does the grade team teach? Like do all of the K classes do the same basic lessons? If so, the administration may be your only option.

[MrsK]

As a mom at a catholic school I'm obviously on the other end of this spectrum but do have one question - does the grade team teach? Like do all of the K classes do the same basic lessons? If so, the administration may be your only option.

I think they team teach some things and not others. FWIW, we are not at opposite ends of the spectrum. You chose private school that includes religious education. You chose that because you wanted religion taught at school. I chose public school which should not include religious education. If I wanted religious education at school, I could have chosen to send my children to a Jewish school.

[spotty_dog]

I think that coming up with a plan with other parents and your rabbi sounds perfect. As an atheist in public school, sometimes I cringe a little at what my kids come home with, but most of it is innocuous and easy to counteract or fits in with our cultural practices. I don't have the experience of having an alternate religious belief either misrepresented or acted against in the classroom, so I find myself wondering where the line is and if it's being crossed. I try hard to put myself in others' shoes, but having it spelled out would be helpful. But that's me. If your teacher looked at you blankly with the race analogy, this feels like a lost cause. Ugh. I feel for you.

This week, my son's third grade teacher told him that the word "quarry" when used as a verb means "to argue". Very clearly, brooked no argument, even after my son pointed out that he's reading a book with a stone quarry in it. So when he wrote his practice sentence using this as the meaning, I told him that she was mistaken and thinking of "quarrel". I used a dictionary and my husband to support my position. No dice. He believed his teacher above his parents or a third party. My husband thought this was good, but it scared me a little. Teachers are in a position of authority over kids, and have a lot of influence on them.

[GrayMatterWife]

I'd totally send the cookies.
DS1's preschool asked each parent what holidays we celebrate, and they're spending one day on each this month. Yesterday was Muslim holidays, today was Diwali, next week we've got Hannukah and Christmas (and a couple others). I love that they're including everyone (and DS loves getting so many celebrations in one month &#128521.

Send the cookies. No question. LOTS of them. And send a huge Menorah, electric candles (no excuse not to light them), a small dredel for each child, several books on Hanukkah, and decorate the room in blue and white streamers. Seriously. I'd come help you if I lived close by.

It doesn't matter whether the teacher is technically teaching or endorsing a "religion." The point is that she is NEEDLESSLY creating this frustration and there is absolutely ZERO educational value in watching "Polar Express." Why the heck would you show it, when parents have expressed a lack of comfort? This is a freaking time-killer because the teacher apparently doesn't want to teach.

[PrincessFiona]

Send the cookies. No question. LOTS of them. And send a huge Menorah, electric candles (no excuse not to light them), a small dredel for each child, several books on Hanukkah, and decorate the room in blue and white streamers. Seriously. I'd come help you if I lived close by.

It doesn't matter whether the teacher is technically teaching or endorsing a "religion." The point is that she is NEEDLESSLY creating this frustration and there is absolutely ZERO educational value in watching "Polar Express." Why the heck would you show it, when parents have expressed a lack of comfort? This is a freaking time-killer because the teacher apparently doesn't want to teach.

Yup!



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[ladymoreta]

I think at this point, she's forced your hand by undermining your authority about your family's religion. I'd probably go ahead and explain the whole Santa thing to K1 and let the consequences be what they may. Tell him you'd rather he didn't tell other kids, because it's something their families have chosen to pretend for fun, but don't discipline him if he tells. If they didn't want their kid finding out about Santa, they should have objected to the movie, too. Heck, the whole story is about not believing in him anyway...

[SuzySunshine]

MrsK what I meant by my team teach comment was that it may be out of her hands, it may be something the entire grade does. So you'd have to meet with all K teachers or go to administration.

[MrsK]

MrsK what I meant by my team teach comment was that it may be out of her hands, it may be something the entire grade does. So you'd have to meet with all K teachers or go to administration.

Administration supports the lesson. The teacher already discussed our initial letters with the principal and we were overruled.

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