Call Issues

[Meenah]

How do your programs handle the situation where a resident observes Sabbath?

I've moved this topic and started a new thread.

[alison]

I guess some of the questions I have are:

1) How do you handle a program that seems sympathetic to all the residents, yet makes allowances for certain individuals based on their religious practices?

2) Is medicine an occupation that allows for a strict observance of Sabbath?

[pstone]

Do you raise medicine above religion if you say it comes first?

[Sheherezade]

Tomatoes ready? :>

DH had the same problems in his OB/Gyn residency with all the women having babies. Seriously. I'm a pro-parenting type, but I was beside myself with how much slack the other residents were taking up for maternity leaves and lightened schedules for new moms. Maybe it affected us more because the program had 8 residents --only 2 males. 5 of the women went on maternity leave during training. 2 had children twice. Every time, the call schedule was altered to accomodate. After the new mom returned to work, the schedule was altered to give her the lighter call. Of course, when I had my children, DH got NO paternity leave at all. The other male resident actually had to go to the top of the food chain to get 1 week off -- much lesss the 6 weeks maternity leave that was offered to the women. Only if the mom took more than 6 weeks was she required to make up the time after her residency.

I was surprised how livid I could get about something that I supported in every other arena. It's nasty when your DH is on Q2 for 4 weeks because a resident is out. (Pre-80 hour, so they could just do that - in fact at this institution the motto was "The only problem with Q2 call is that you miss half the good cases. " :disappointed: )

So beyond religion.....when do you support disparities in the call schedule? Why? And for how long can this go on? Should the benefiting party be made to repay the time?

[alison]

Do you raise medicine above religion if you say it comes first?

Yes, I do.
However, I think my question here is work. And it happens to be in medicine.

[Vanquisher]

So beyond religion.....when do you support disparities in the call schedule? Why? And for how long can this go on? Should the benefiting party be made to repay the time?

Only if they benefit my husband. :> Seriously, that is the true and selfish answer. Since this has yet to happen, I'll say never. Medicine is a beast. This includes religion and maternity leave.

[Sheherezade]

See, that was my take too. It's a survival mode reaction, right? I was completely NOT understanding. NOT at all. I'm so ashamed. Me, against maternity leave.

Still, when you are working these types of hours, everyone has to pull their weight. Or else - the wrath.

[alison]

Yup, I think it would be survival mode here too!

I'm surprised that your program didn't/doesn't give paternity leave.

[alison]

Do you raise medicine above religion if you say it comes first?

I think the real question is do you raise *your* religion/needs above everyone's else's?

Yup, that's what I meant. Only Annie says it better.

[mommax3]

Angie,

DH and I would join you in the non-PC camp regarding maternity leave, esp. during residency.

Sally

[Rapunzel]

The following come to mind:


From Luke Chapter 13

11 ¶ And, behold, there was a woman which had a spirit of infirmity eighteen years, and was bowed together, and could in no wise lift up herself.
12 And when Jesus saw her, he called her to him, and said unto her, Woman, thou art loosed from thine infirmity.
13 And he laid his hands on her: and immediately she was made straight, and glorified God.
14 And the ruler of the synagogue answered with indignation, because that Jesus had healed on the sabbath day, and said unto the people, There are six days in which men ought to work: in them therefore come and be healed, and not on the sabbath day.
15 The Lord then answered him, and said, Thou hypocrite, doth not each one of you on the sabbath loose his ox or his ass from the stall, and lead him away to watering?
16 And ought not this woman, being a daughter of Abraham, whom Satan hath bound, lo, these eighteen years, be loosed from this bond on the sabbath day?
17 And when he had said these things, all his adversaries were ashamed: and all the people rejoiced for all the glorious things that were done by him.


From Luke Chapter 14:

1 And it came to pass, as he went into the house of one of the chief Pharisees to eat bread on the sabbath day, that they watched him.
2 And, behold, there was a certain man before him which had the dropsy.
3 And Jesus answering spake unto the lawyers and Pharisees, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath day?
4 And they held their peace. And he took him, and healed him, and let him go;
5 And answered them, saying, Which of you shall have an ass or an ox fallen into a pit, and will not straightway pull him out on the sabbath day?



For Christians, Christ is the ultimate example. And, if Christ healed on the Sabbath and taught others it was OK to do so then that's good enough for me!

[Rapunzel]

So beyond religion.....when do you support disparities in the call schedule? Why? And for how long can this go on? Should the benefiting party be made to repay the time?

I support disparities for maternity AND paternity leave, for serious illness in the family (as in your IMMEDIATE family - spouse and children and possibly a parent), for death of a relative (to attend the funeral), or for serious illness in the resident him/herself.

Our experience in residency did involve dh taking on work because of a co-resident having maternity leave and, then, around the same time, having her mother become very ill and die. That resident ended up getting several months off. I supported it. I felt so awful for that woman. She did have to make up the time because it was so long.

However, had this meant dh had to take Q2 call, I don't know that I would have felt quite the same way. I just don't know.

I do think there needs to be a certain amount of flexibility in residency programs because life happens. But, I also think that if a resident or fellow must take an extended period of time off then that person needs to have just as much time "tacked on" to the residency to compensate for the absence. It's partly about missing the learning time and partly about fairness.

[alison]

Just a quick question. Are there any programs out there that let you do your residency on a part-time basis?

I don't think that there are PT residency programs. Can't imagine it working out, if they're already having trouble fitting everything in.

I dislike the disparity in maternity / paternity leave. DH couldn't even get a week off after the birth of our kids, yet some women will have mulitple babies and get chunks of 6 weeks off after another b/c of the baby (ies). There should probably be a standard amount of time that can be taken off in a "year" period July - June and a predetermined bracket of time where if X is exceeded, then it must be made up. FMLA allows for up to 12 weeks in a 12 month period to care for a child, parent, of spouse -- but in some programs even asking for FMLA is considered weakness. Right now it's just up to the PD's discretion, and in dh's residency program he wasn't even consistent from one resident to another.

[alison]

In Germany, you get 6 weeks paid maternity leave BEFORE the kid is born. 14 paid weeks after kid. Unpaid maternity leave is 3 years beyond that. So, your employer cannot hire a person to replace you until after 3 years. Many times, the person will return to work, and then get pregnant again. There is a lot of resentment towards women in the work force in Germany. Imagine what it would be like in a medical setting!