Call Issues

Will have to make up the maternity leave, so it is not less work, just shifted.

Not everyone has to make it up, though. There is no standard between programs, and even between different departments at the same institution. It generally seems to be up to the PD's discretion.

I don't know that everyone thinks it NEEDS to be made up. As Annie said "life happens". There just needs to be some sort of guidelines where it's not crazy slanted in one direction or the other.

I think that if someone has a problem with a Sabbath-observant residency, then don't rank it!!! There are very few of them, and most are in NYC, so it's not like there are no other programs to choose from.

As for the maternity leave issue: I would hope that I would not be so petty as to hold a pregnancy against one of DH's colleagues. Fortunately, I am pretty close to most of the female residents in DH's class (we go out on the weekends), so I don't think I would be too upset with them if DH had to take more call.

I agree with pstone in that if programs are going to accept women, they need to have a plan for maternity leave. It sounds as though some of the programs you all mentioned were in complete denial about the situation. With 50% of medical schools now comprised of females, changes do need to be made. But, alas this is prevalent in any field across all of America- when are employers going to pull their heads out of the sand

But I don't think it would suck any worse for your husband if the other person didn't leave at noon on Friday. If it's just sour grapes, I don't think that's a reason to say yea or nay to the program.

I think my bigger issue w/the scenario Alison described initially is that the guy doesn't work Saturday OR Sunday, and has refused (to other residents, not the PD) to work Saturday sundown / Sunday sun-up b/c "he doesn't want to".

I agree w/you Fluff. One simple thing of leaving at noon or one on Friday and having Saturdays off to observe isn't a huge issue. It's having ALL "golden weekends" while everyone else picks up the slack that I find objectionable.

[Sheherezade]

I think it creates a bad atmosphere when someone in the program is perceived to be getting special treatment. Honestly, I don't know if the moms in DHs program had to pay back in any way on other rotations or what have you.....the rumor mill said no, but it's a rumor mill. You never heard word one from the moms or the PD on the matter of payback.

Why can't PDs communicate about this stuff better? It would make it all easier. The fact that they don't talk about it just perpetuates the idea that it's unfair - and hush-hush.

If someone observes the Sabbath and can make it up by working Sundays, great. Tell everyone. If you don't, seeing that person leave every Friday afternoon will breed resentment. We always think our lot sucks more than the other guy's....particularly in residency.

I think that if someone has a problem with a Sabbath-observant residency, then don't rank it!!!

I don't believe the program that initially started the debate is billed as a "Sabbath Observant" residency, and it's not in NYC.

As far as whether being frustrated by having to pick up extra calls multiple times due to maternity leave is "petty" ... I'll just say that I disagree.

[SuzySunshine]

I think that if someone has a problem with a Sabbath-observant residency, then don't rank it!!!

My question is - are the applicants interviewing at these programs made aware of this situation when they're applying there? DH applied and interviewed at the big NY programs and was never told anything about this.

I asked him about it and he'd never heard of it at any of the schools he interviewed at.

[fluffhead]

I highly doubt that a sabbath-observant neurosurgery program exists.
Most are the lower-stress programs or medicine.

[SuzySunshine]

I highly doubt that a sabbath-observant neurosurgery program exists.
Most are the lower-stress programs or medicine.

Well if it doesn't exist in all programs then why should it exist at all - back to someone's original comment people don't just get sick on weekdays.

[quote="Genivieve]
I don't believe the program that initially started the debate is billed as a "Sabbath Observant" residency, and it's not in NYC.

[quote]


Oops! Then my opinion changes, if the program was not billed as "Sabbath- Observant". The problem with a resident wanting SOR (Sabbath-observant residency) is that someone else always has to take Saturday call, which is the worst call, because your post call day is already your day off. You basically lose a day off.

In short, I don't think a resident should get special treatment for sabbath observation in a non-SOR. That's why SOR exist.


As far as maternity leave goes, I still think the expectant mother should be allowed time off. However, she should have to make it up. At DH's program a woman took maternity leave, and was told she had to make it up. Later, the PD reneged on this, and allowed her to graduate with everyone else, which created some resentment among the residents.

Part time/Job sharing residencies do exist, however, there are not many, and they typically are for FP, IM, and Peds only. So, until other programs determine how to handle the maternity leave/call schedule conundrum, I think we will just have to grin-and-bear-it.

[pstone]

Well, at our program the woman that takes maternity leave has to make it up at the end of the residency...completely fair and I don't have any complaints. This also means she would be around during the busiest part of the year for upper levels when so many new CA-1s are paired.

Really, there are more then 50% women in med school now...they have to deal with it. Saying this is the was it has been and not dealing will only cause problems.

If someone got to take 3 months leave and not make that up, well where is the training in that...make it up, do you work but don't be penalized for wanting a family and a career, surely you women must agree with that.

[fluffhead]

I highly doubt that a sabbath-observant neurosurgery program exists.
Most are the lower-stress programs or medicine.

Well if it doesn't exist in all programs then why should it exist at all - back to someone's original comment people don't just get sick on weekdays.

It's just a matter of feasibility - if the program is q3 or is very small, it's going to be very difficult to make SOR work fairly.
Also, to be practical about it, very competitive fields have no incentive to do SOR.

[DCJenn]

Well as with everything, the military does things to benefit the military and no one else.

People work when they are assigned to work to they're considered AWOL. Maternity leave is 6 weeks, however it's expected that the resident will use their elective and do 'special projects'. If the maternity leave lasts longer, they will make it up at the end. New fathers get one week. Maybe. If they're doing a rotation that is 'leavable'. (most people can switch around their months in advance so that the 'leavable' rotations occur around due dates.

Co-workers will cover but they will be reimbursed by the person for whom they are covering.

Everyone should have the same numbers of days off by the end of each year.

If a holiday falls and the resident is working an inpatient rotation, they will work as scheduled. If the resident is working at a clinic- Family Medicine or Pediatrics then they usually are required to go in but they can study. Occasionally the PDs will let them off if it's a weekend like Memorial Day.

The chief resident had the schedules done for the whole year at the beginning of the year so that everyone knew in advance and could negotiate accordingly.

Jenn

[SuzySunshine]

My understanding of our program is that you have to make up anything over 4 weeks because that is how much vacation everyone gets. If you are in your research years when you have your baby you do not have to make it up as long as you get your research done. So the classmate of DH's that is due in May will not have to make up her maternity leave b/c she is "off service" and it doesn't affect anyone else's call schedule.

DH will get one day when I have children unless we are lucky enough to have requested vacation in the appropriate time frame.

[houseelf]

My understanding is that there is a licensing issue if a surgical resident takes more than four weeks per year, be it vacation or other needed time off in order for the program to meet the requirements of the accreditation board.

Kelly

[pstone]

Yeah, why at least here they have to make it up, can't take more then a certain amount of time off to fufill your residency. So they just add the time on at the end, seems fair to me.