breast feeding, test taking medical mom

[Vanquisher]

I don't think that expecting time every 3 hours for a year (assuming that one bf's for a year) in addition to other time is reasonable in any field.

I pumped for quite a while when I was working and had to do it around meetings. I usually used my lunch time and ate while I pumped. I guess I didn't feel like I needed to ask for time every three hours on the dot and I went longer than three hours. So based on my experience I feel.... :huh: . It just seems like a lot. And it would be too much to ask co-workers to accomodate an every three hour schedule for a year, IMO. If no one had to do extra accomodating, fine.

btw, I've known several residents and attendings who were able to maintain breastfeeding in a way that didn't interfere with other people's schedules. My reaction to her request is what I said above -- this isn't the only thing she is going to ask for and expect people to accomodate and she is probably going to be a PITA resident to work with. And it is NOT my opinion that all lactating or pregnant or parental residents are a PITA.

I agree, Nellie! If you can do your job and do it well, then by all means, please breastfeed. I think it is an accomplishable goal (though maybe not in surgery), and a great one, but don't expect me to pick up your extra work and accomodate you at every turn when you ask for so much. I think she would be a total PITA. Has she matched yet, and where?

[madeintaiwan]

When I worked in the group home we didn't get alloted breaks period or lunch breaks and we were mandated by CCL to keep our ratios at 1 counselor per 3 kids at all times. If another counselor, social worker, or supervisor couldn't step in, sorry you're holding it. So yeah there were times that I couldn't pump when my boobs hurt because the kids were off the hook and it was unsafe to leave my two co workers with the 9 very emotionally disturbed children that we were responsible for. I've been on top of a kid wrestling with them in a restraint with engorged boobs for over 45 minutes before. And there were many times that I would be pumping and get called on my nextel for assistance or just the amusing mooing that they would make the boys do while I was pumping. Life just does not go your way sometimes. I was late MANY times relieving my boobs and I had no problems nursing my son until he was 2.5 years old.

All she has to do is sit there and take a test that she's already seen before. There are jobs where you don't have the luxury of a break even if is the "law." Like others have stated how does she have time to be filing a law suit when she has two boards to take and is applying for the match? Really WTH is she going to do during Step 2CS? Again, I think her behavior is lame. I think she is lame and is just looking excuses and trying to place blame because she already took and failed her boards as if alloted pumping is going to make a difference. It's one day of her life. She comes off as a brat and if it's not apparent I don't like her and others like her who have time to file law suits over trivial things. It's not like they're preventing her for pumping for days on end. It's one pumping session. Good grief. I've gone 12 hours without nursing or relieving my boobs containing enough milk to feed my 10.5 pound newborn.

I am just having a hard time understanding why not being able to pump under her preceived time limit for a day (maybe two) of her life is enough for her to not pull up her big girl pants and take the test that is required for her to be able to graduate and practice being the doctor that she apparently wants to be. I say too bad, she obviously doesn't want it. People are making sacrifices and compromises everyday, not being able to pump for a day doesn't even get a blink from me. What's her address, I'll send her some my little pony underwear because apparently she's as reasonable as my 2.5 year old daughter.

[Vanquisher]

Well said, Davita.

She is going into Clinical Pathology, I believe...so I think she'll be ok.

Yes, more flexible, but it still would be frowned on. CP is actually the only kind of Path that deals with whole patients that are still breathing, so the time factor isn't as irrelevant as some might thing. Blood Banking requires lots of interaction w/other services, occasional *gasp* patient visits, etc.

And I like how Nellie equated it to a "regular" job. I went back to work after Jacob, and I pumped when I had time to pump. I couldn't leave meetings, etc. b/c it was "time".

[GrayMatterWife]

Well said, Davita.

I completely agree!

Big huge

or just the amusing mooing that they would make the boys do while I was pumping.

Oh boy, that would tick me off!

The fact that she would find it a priority to file a lawsuit over this with so much else going on in her life would be a red flag to me, too. Especially since she's already been granted extra time to take the test.

[Meenah]

I want to know what program would give her a spot given her obvious uncooperative behavior?

[PrincessFiona]

I have thought about this all day while I have run from place to place in the car with the kids.

I can agree with the argument that special accomodation for breastfeeding should not be made based on the fact that she can choose to take the test at a later date this year. I'm not sure how often a year the USMLE is offered but I think because it is computer based (isn't it?) it is 4x a year. If I were breastfeeding, I might ask for extra time to finish pumping...maybe...but I wouldn't aks for exta time to be tacked onto the end of test. That, however, doesn't mean someone shouldn't be able too.

We would have to be able to agree though that this would hold true for all situations. If a man had..say...a prostate problem and had to urinate often..he could not be given accomodation (beyond being allowed to use the restroom more frequently with no time tacked onto the end...which of course could put him at a disadvantage).

Because there are other opportunities to take the test, I think she should not be granted the extra extension of time.

To be clear though, she didn't really file a lawsuit as in "I'm going to sue you"..she appealed the decision and a judge will make the decision. I don't think that is the same.

One thing I will disagree with though is this

Need your spouse to moonlight because you are on the brink? suck it up and deal.

I don't think ANY of these things are even remotely equivalent.

ITA!

.....
ETA: Not anti-woman, just anti entitlement.

The only way someone should be allowed to moonlight is if with moonlighting their hours don't exceed 80 hours. Such a big issue has been made of safety and work hours that no exceptions should be granted because of one person's needs...They should have to make alternative plans. We did. The safety of the patients and the health of the doctor working should not be risked because of a person's individual needs.

I know that hits hard, but I do see this as being a situation that is similar...it is about granting *entitlements* to people on an individual basis because of their own wants/needs at the expense of other people.

kris

I'm pretty sure that all allowances for moonlighting require that they still fall within the 80 hours rule. I know that when my dh moonlit after the rule was instituted, he still had to sign the paper saying he hadn't gone over the 80 hours. That's largely why the opportunity for moonlighting has gone down so much over the past several years.

Exceptions (as I know them) are granted in programs where moonlighting is forbidden - period. Not forbidden only if you aren't over the 80 hours. If a program knowingly gave an exception to go over the 80 hours, they could get in a heap of trouble.

So I don't think it's a safety issue, or asking others to be put out, etc.

[samssugarmomma]

I think you are right JennP. At least here, if you moonlight, you still have to stay under 80 hours.

[PrincessFiona]

So if you end up at a program that doesn't allow moonlighting it wouldn't be fair to the other residents to allow only individuals to moonlight then. Can we agree on that?

When we did residency, dh wasn't allowed to moonlight because he graduated from a german medical school. Any US grad was allowed to moonlight and that hardly seemed just.

[GrayMatterWife]

Not forbidden only if you aren't over the 80 hours. If a program knowingly gave an exception to go over the 80 hours, they could get in a heap of trouble.

It's strictly prohibited in DH's program, period. But then, where the heck would he get this time? He always is at (or over...shhhh!) the 88-hour rule, anyway.

Besides, his malpractice insurance is going to cover only his work at his residency hospital. I doubt another place would offer to cover him piecemeal, and we would probably lose money on moonlighting if we had to pay for his additional insurance out of pocket.

[Vanquisher]

So if you end up at a program that doesn't allow moonlighting it wouldn't be fair to the other residents to allow only individuals to moonlight then. Can we agree on that?

Not really. It's not the same. A resident moonlighting is doing so on their time. It wouldn't put out the other residents in the slightest. We had to sign the paper saying dh was under 80 with moonlighting too.

I think not allowing moonlighting should be illegal. That's just me.

[PrincessFiona]

So if you end up at a program that doesn't allow moonlighting it wouldn't be fair to the other residents to allow only individuals to moonlight then. Can we agree on that?

Not really. It's not the same. A resident moonlighting is doing so on their time. It wouldn't put out the other residents in the slightest. We had to sign the paper saying dh was under 80 with moonlighting too.

I think not allowing moonlighting should be illegal. That's just me.

Unless all residents are granted the same right, then it isn't really the same....In addition, because residents are already working 80 hours/week in most cases, working more hours may cause additional fatigue that could affect learning/pt. care. All of that can and does affect performance....There was no 80 hour work week when dh was doing fellowship and he fell asleep once when we were in the middle of a phone conversation because of the fatigue....

kris

[madeintaiwan]

Both Step2s, especially Step 2CK is pretty much offered every day, if not at least 5 or 6 times a week thorought most of the year. Depending on the time of the year and how far in advance you schedule your test, the possibilties of test dates are endless. And CK can be taken pretty much anywhere. CS on the hand is only offered in LA, Chicago, Atlanta, Houston, and Philladelphia. Again though they have testing pretty much every day and they do two sessions a day, but scheduling can be much trickier. You have to schedule way ahead of time, especially during high volume test time. But there are plenty of dates and since most people have to travel for the test, she should be able to find a test site on her desired date.

Appeal, law suit, whatever, seems to me like her time could be better spent preparing for her boards (since she obviously needs the help), doing aways, getting ready for interview season, and spending the free time MS4 gives you with her children before she starts residency. I still think she's lame and if she's going to be out there being so lame she should at least wear her my little pony underwear instead of her I want to be a doctor but only if you bend the rules and make exceptions for me because I can't make it on my own nor do I want to put forth the effort and "suffering" that everyone else has to go through pants.