Dumbledore is gay

Re: Dumbledore is gay

The purple teletubby started the murse.

Maybe Dumbleedude (whatever his name is...I've never read the HP series) will make it fashionable to carry wands?

If I knew more about the series and the character and had the inclination, I would have my halloween costume be Dumbledore after he comes out of the closet.

[DrWahoo]

Re: Dumbledore is gay

I am so insane, I can not believe how much time I have devoted to this topic :banghead:

Anyway I have found the passage page 27. ...Skeeter,nodding briskly. " I devote an entire chapter to the whole Potter-Dumbledore relationship. It's been called unhealthy, even sinister. Again, your readers will have to buy my book for the whole story, but there is no question that Dumbledore took an unnatural interest in Potter from the word go. Whether that was really in the boy's best interest--well, we'll see."

This is the first passage ever to suggest anything sexual about Dumbledore. Yes Rita Skeeter is a big tabloid gossip, but we learn that what she says has some truth all though the some of details are wrong. By outing Dumbledore, I felt it forces me to re-evaluate passages like this and I am uncomfortable with the mere suggestion of inappropriateness. It is not simply because he's gay, but he is a man that also kept a lot secrets and basically served up Harry to kill himself. I also see some strange parallels between his relationship with Grindelwald and his relationship with Harry. He carried deeply about both of them, but in the end was willing to have them eliminated for the greater good.

Concerning Rowlings motives. My point was that I don't think it is disrespectful that she had a gay character, rather the motives and the way she outed him. But after reading this article http://hogwartsprofessor.com/?p=198#more-198 which included a full transcript of what happened to reveal Dumbledore's sexuality, I now understand that she wasn't doing it to be spiteful, but to give an honest answer to someone who inquired about his love life. I think she obviously was sensitive to others beliefs or was forced to do so by her publishers and tried to keep his sexuality quiet. But as a Christian parent who had so many other parents lambaste her for enjoying Harry Potter and ask her advice if HP conflicted with Christian values, my credibility has taken a hit. Christian or not no one wants to have their judgment as a parent questioned.

[DCJenn]

Re: Dumbledore is gay

I'm not sure that I'm getting the Christianity/parenting/gay character connection.

Surely people would be more enthused about kids reading and enjoying it versus minutiae from one paragraph of one section of the book.

People will find something wrong w/ everything if they look hard enough...

If you liked it, if you kids liked it, who cares what everyone else thinks?

Jenn

[Vanquisher]

Re: Dumbledore is gay

Anyway I have found the passage page 27. ...Skeeter,nodding briskly. " I devote an entire chapter to the whole Potter-Dumbledore relationship. It's been called unhealthy, even sinister. Again, your readers will have to buy my book for the whole story, but there is no question that Dumbledore took an unnatural interest in Potter from the word go. Whether that was really in the boy's best interest--well, we'll see."

Unhealthy and sinister = sexual, how?
Unnatural interest = sexual, how?

I take a rather unnatural interest in trying to make really yummy food. I trapse all over town to buy ravioli makers and semolina flour.

Unhealthy is a vague word.

Sinister means suggesting evil: threatening or suggesting malevolence, menace, or harm. Does harm or malevolence always equal sex, or just because this character is gay? He knew Harry was the chosen one from the prophecy and knew that Harry had to die and didn't reveal this to Harry. It wasn't sexual!! Ugh.

[Vanquisher]

Re: Dumbledore is gay

Sorry, this is really bothering me. I think I need to bow out of this debate.

[madeintaiwan]

Re: Dumbledore is gay

Heidi, everyone knows all gay men are pedophiles.

Exactly. And monkeys wear pink tights and dance on red houses every Chinese New Years to bring good luck to all.

Personally I think this debate is over. I think it should have been over a few pages ago. There are obviously two very different spectrums of views here. Neither are going to change and now all that's going on is people trying to justify and get validation for their view. Which to me frankly doesn't matter. If HP bothers you don't let your kids read it. And letting what other people think about your parenting get down, that's a whole other issue. If you have issues with gay people so be it, if you don't fine. People shouldn't need other people to agree with them to feel a certain way. Guilt/disappointment/ect is something that should be felt by you for yourself not because someone is trying to make you feel that way. I'm all about consideration for others, but at the end of the day, you have to live with you. Feel how you're going to feel. Own it and move on.

[DrWahoo]

Re: Dumbledore is gay

I agree its an uncomfortable discussion, I just don't understand why people are getting so emotional. I also don't like being portrayed as a homophobe. If Skeeter said that Dumbledore had an unnatural interest in Hermoine, I would think it was sexual also. At the same time we are supposed to interpret that the word "inflamed" is sexual. I am open to other interpretations of what Skeeter meant, if anyone is cares to give a succinct response.

Re: Dumbledore is gay

I agree its an uncomfortable discussion, I just don't understand why people are getting so emotional. I also don't like being portrayed as a homophobe. If Skeeter said that Dumbledore had an unnatural interest in Hermoine, I would think it was sexual also. At the same time we are supposed to interpret that the word "inflamed" is sexual. I am open to other interpretations of what Skeeter meant, if anyone is cares to give a succinct response.

If you consider the fact that to get to that point you will have read several thousand pages of story, and you have that information to use and interpret the use of the word "unnatural". If Skeeter said D had an unnatural interest in Hermionie, I'd think "that's stupid". When I read D had an unnatural interest in Harry I thought "that's stupid."

Taken out of context anything can sound incriminatinig. As part of the plot line of a story built over a decade ... it's harmless.

[DrWahoo]

Re: Dumbledore is gay

Thank you Jane for contributing to this discussion without feeling the need to flame. When I first read what Skeeter said I thought "that's gross." I kept it in the back of my mind to see if there was any validity to what she said. For me in this day and age when such things are suggested I don't quickly just discount them. But that's just me. Still I am not saying that Dumbledore did have sexual feelings for Harry, the accusation just took the innocence out of the relationship for me. I also was uncomfortable with people assuming that I am homophobic for interpreting what Skeeter said about D and H's relationship. Apparently I am not alone because Rebecca Traister a gender issues reporter for Salon. com said this :

"It's been called unhealthy, even sinister ... there is no question that Dumbledore took an unnatural interest in Potter." Here Rowling is aping the leering, speculative tone of news stories about gay priests, Cub Scout leaders, and teachers accused of inappropriate relationships with their charge

From my understand Salon.com is a pretty liberal site, so such assumptions are not necessarily rooted in homophobia.

Finally, in terms of literary critique, I am interested in how Rowling views homosexuality. I am not speaking from a perspective of being a parent or from my religious views, just mere curiosity. I tend to get the impression that while she tolerates such relationships, she may not feel need to encourage them. Secularists where upset that she put blatantly Christian themes in her book, will gay fans be dismayed if she in facts does not view homosexuality in a positive light ?

Re: Dumbledore is gay

Finally, in terms of literary critique, I am interested in how Rowling views homosexuality. I am not speaking from a perspective of being a parent or from my religious views, just mere curiosity. I tend to get the impression that while she tolerates such relationships, she may not feel need to encourage them. Secularists where upset that she put blatantly Christian themes in her book, will gay fans be dismayed if she in facts does not view homosexuality in a positive light ?

Well here is what is quoted from her "outting":

Fans at New York's Carnegie Hall were initially stunned into silence by the announcement, but soon started clapping and cheering.

JK said: "I would have told you earlier if I knew it would make you so happy."

- Sounds like a positive outting to me, but that's just how I took it. I would take her attitude about it IRL as more important than the character itself - I'm assuming that is why you think she may not have a positive oppinion?

[GrayMatterWife]

Re: Dumbledore is gay

How about Bert and Ernie?

Oh, I'm sorry...I know there's the whole "Bert and Ernie are gay" thing...but I don't believe that for a MINUTE!! Have you seen their hairdos? They are NOT gay! No self-respecting gay man would look so frumpy!

Honestly, I'm a little lost as to why Rowling's comments even matter, from a point of legitimate literary criticism. So what if the authoress says, post-publication, that the character is gay? Big deal. People also argue that David and Jonathan from the Old Testament were gay. It's just speculation beyond the first-source authority. Regardless of the fact that the comment is by the HP authoress, it is nothing other than a nontextual, secondary-source authority for the premise. If you were writing a substantive, close-reading literary criticism of gay themes in the book, you wouldn't even rely on the comment as proof (although it might be cited as an interesting reason to investigate the ACTUAL TEXT for proof. However, it sounds like the text provides very limited and strained direct support for the premise, especially given the fact that the authoress had to explain this dimension of the character outside the writing itself).

I think Rowling would be served well to take a tip from Harper Lee ("To Kill a Mockingbird"). Lee never speaks in public about her writing. By doing so, it allows the read to explore the depths of the text without the burden of secondary-source "insights" propounded by the writer. JD Salinger ("Catcher in the Rye") is much the same. Allow your work to speak for itself, and allow the reader to think for himself.

Re: Dumbledore is gay

I think Rowling would be served well to take a tip from Harper Lee ("To Kill a Mockingbird"). Lee never speaks in public about her writing. By doing so, it allows the read to explore the depths of the text without the burden of secondary-source "insights" propounded by the writer. JD Salinger ("Catcher in the Rye") is much the same. Allow your work to speak for itself, and allow the reader to think for himself

I also think this is why it is hard for a book that is loved to be equally loved on the screen - the individual reader has a picture of what that person is like and how the characteristics mannerisms are. I rarely enjoy a good book represented on screen.

[GrayMatterWife]

Re: Dumbledore is gay

I also think this is why it is hard for a book that is loved to be equally loved on the screen - the individual reader has a picture of what that person is like and how the characteristics mannerisms are. I rarely enjoy a good book represented on screen.

I completely agree: well-written books very infrequently translate into well-written and well-performed screenplays that fully embody the depth of the book (although, I have to hand it to Gregory Peck--he came pretty close in "To Kill a Mockingbird").

However, I think ANY screenplay of a John Grisham book also proves the opposite: a good screenplay writer can take the crappiest, blandestly written mediocre book with a sexy plot and turn it into much better entertainment on screen!

[SuzySunshine]

Re: Dumbledore is gay

I like the HP movies, I wouldn't say they're as good as the books.

DH hasn't read the books and LOVES the movies. Someday I'll talk him into reading the books (when he has time).

[alison]

Re: Dumbledore is gay

If a reader should think for him or herself (a point I totally agree with), and a text should stand on its own, then I would like to read the visual text of Sesame Street with the characters of Bert and Ernie as gay.

Now, I'm just going to have to get in touch with the writers to send their characters to a salon.