the ethics of hired help

[houseelf]

Re: the ethics of hired help

We had a team of house cleaners come when our townhome was on the market, best money we ever spent. It was luxurious, all three weeks of it before we sold our house too quickly, put everything in storage, and move to temporary housing before making the big move. But that is a bitch and moan for another day.

I loved the end product, but I had serious guilt about having immigrants come to clean my house. It felt soooo....elitist. I'm not even sure that I can describe it. I got to the point where I couldn't be at home when they were there. These were working mamas too and who was I to deserve such a luxury? Maybe I should have gone to their house and help them clean up, you know?

My issues runneth over....

Kelly

Re: the ethics of hired help

It's just a matter of degrees, though - I want my house cleaner than I have time or even knowledge to do myself.

This comes pretty close to how I feel about it. Perhaps it is more time than I am willing to spend cleaning my house given that I have the option to pay someone. We have a housekeeper every other week for about 6-7 hours each time. It would take me longer than that to do the same work and it would be spread out over a week. She does such a good job that it is pretty easy to maintain a clean house for two weeks (I love her). Also, I don't want her to infringe on all opportunities for my kids to help out.

I don't enjoy most cleaning tasks. I like vacuuming because it is the closest I will come to instant gratification. I like washing sheets and towels. I find a lot of house cleaning beyond those things and keeping the kitchen tidy to be frustrating. It wasn't so frustrating before three kids. I'm starting to realize that one side effect of having a needier third child was that I had a really hard time getting anything done, to the point where I just stopped trying because why start something that will never be finished? I'm getting better about that and forging ahead again but cleaning the house isn't really where I want to test it out. Which is pretty much to say that I am purchasing some sanity with this.

I read the Merry Maids chapter of the Nickled and Dimed book and came away vowing to never use their service.

[mommax3]

Re: the ethics of hired help

It wasn't so frustrating before three kids. I'm starting to realize that one side effect of having a needier third child was that I had a really hard time getting anything done, to the point where I just stopped trying because why start something that will never be finished?

Again, proof that we are living parallel lives! I had things completely under control when I had a resident DH, two boys aged 5 and 2, and a part-time job. The house ran like a well-oiled machine. Then we moved and I had a FUSSY third baby. And my well-oiled machine got all f&%ed up. :huh:

Sally

[Rapunzel]

Re: the ethics of hired help

I have a totally different perspective on this:

My fil died when my husband was about 13 years old.

His mother (my mil) was a Mexican immigrant with a high school diploma (an American high school).

So, she had five children to support while working herself through school in order to be able to get a white-collar job.

What did she do to support them?

She was a housecleaner.

I've talked to her about this. She was thankful for the job. It fed my husband and his brothers.

She also said that a LOT of these housecleaners (the individuals and the smaller services) make a killing! She said that far from being low-paying housecleaning can mean quite a bit of $$$. She made good money herself.

Until her recent death my mil's sister (dh's aunt) was a housecleaner. She never regretted it nor felt embarrassed about it.

It's work. Period.

If people wouldn't have hired her it's simple - her children would have starved. When you pay someone for a job you are not degrading them. On the contrary - you are providing them an opportunity. How in the world that could be interpreted as wrong leaves me a bit flabbergasted.

If we feel embarrassed about others working then that says much more about us than them. To these people (such as my mil and her family members who have been or currently are in the housecleaning business) this is just life. It's just a job. It's a source of income. There is no big angst over it. There's no ethical dilemma.

So, I have had housecleaners when I've needed it. The last time was when I was hugely pregnant with baby #6 and 2,000 miles away from family and friends who could help for free. I wasn't taking advantage of the sweet women who cleaned my house. I was paying them - and not badly, either.

I grew up in a blue-collar family, though. So, this type of angst over other people's jobs just never factored into the equation. People work. Jobs have to get done. And, you need an income. It's just life.

[Rapunzel]

Re: the ethics of hired help

I also thought scottydog's point at the bottom of page 1 regarding "guilt" over hiring people for things such as housecleaning was inciteful.

She mentioned that this could be because the guilty feel this work is "dirty" or "beneath them" therefore the people performing these labors would be doing dirty work.

The fact is that most people in the world don't regard cleaning a home as "dirty" or "beneath them". I think that Americans in the middle class and upper class probably do. I just got into the middle class in my adulthood and I definitely do see a difference. And, believe me, the middle and upper classes totally get made fun of by the blue-collars (such as everyone I grew up with and most of dh and my families) because of this weird angst.

It's all in your head, in other words. And, your housecleaners generally don't feel the same way, either. It's a job to them - just like waste disposal work, janitorial services, catering, landscaping, etc. It pays for the rest of their life. It is a means to an end.

And, I know I said it in my post above but it bears repeating:
These "service industry" jobs can really, really pay very well. And, the tips are often quite large.

[Rapunzel]

Re: the ethics of hired help

All I can say is that it's cheaper and easier than the marriage counseling we would need otherwise.

If you could have heard the fight DH & I had yesterday about housework...

Yeah, I stink at housework. I would love to have another's expertise in an area where I'm not so hot. But if you're asking whether I need it or could do it by myself, the answer is yes. It's just a matter of degrees, though - I want my house cleaner than I have time or even knowledge to do myself.

Someone asked about the original thread. A middle-class lady had gone to a twins meeting with a bunch of "old money," and she basically thought they were all superficial. She was put off by all the talk about their au pairs and gardeners, saying she preferred her simple lifestyle. A couple other people insisted that rich people are just people, too, and they actually can be nice and friendly. And then others chimed in that they have in-home help..

Here's what I'm wondering:

Do the "rich" people involved not have lives?

I mean, what they do when they are sitting around is just talk about their employees? Really?

That is just so...sad. And, boring. And, very weird, too.

You'd think they would have some friends to do things with rather than harping on the gardener and his family.

Again, weird.

Re: the ethics of hired help

I see no problem with hiring help as long as you pay and treat them fairly (just as you would want to be treated - duh). No one deserves to be treated poorly just because their job doesn't require the accumlation of major educational debt.

[Cumberland]

Re: the ethics of hired help

Just wondering- this thread started because of a different thread on MDC right? It has all the makings of a great MDC debate.

[spotty_dog]

Re: the ethics of hired help

Just wondering- this thread started because of a different thread on MDC right? It has all the makings of a great MDC debate.

Deb said it was a conversation on a board for parenting multiples? Now you're making me want to go find the MDC debate, LOL.

Re: the ethics of hired help

It was a thread on a private message board (a continuation of an infertility board where I posted during treatments), in the multiples forum. The conversation there dwindled a long time before it did here! Feel free to introduce the topic somewhere else if you want!

[DCJenn]

Re: the ethics of hired help

We're big believers in kicking dead horses here. It's especially funny in posts like these where we usually are all in agreement.

It's the seriuosly heated ones that die quickly.

Jenn