Sarah Palin?

[Sheherezade]

Re: Sarah Palin?

But it is Sarah Palin's fault that we (and half the U.S.A.) are discussing the fact that her teenage daughter is pregnant. At least, that's where my head is on this discussion today. I feel for the poor girl and I'm pissed that either of her parents (Mom or Dad) would put her through this on the national stage.

Pissed may be too strong of a word, but I am amazed that they would put her in this position. Bristol has unwittingly become a pawn in a massive, sorely fought election. She is a symbol of her mother's pro-life position and her mother's reputation is now invested in her choosing to a)get married and b)have her baby. If she had decided to have an abortion - her legal right (I believe) - she'd be destroying her mother's career. I can't see that the kid has much "choice" at all in these matters and I can't imagine wanted to put my kid through that by accepting a VP nomination. SP had to have known about her daughter's pregnancy when she was asked. She had to have seen how this would play out - she's a savvy politician. How on earth could you ask your 17 year old to go through this?

It almost makes me hope she wins (forget I said that) to make the downside to Bristol worth it.

[Vanquisher]

Re: Sarah Palin?

It almost makes me hope she wins (forget I said that) to make the downside to Bristol worth it.

Yeah, but how is that worth it to Bristol? It reminds me of the whole...it'll be worth it when your husband is all finished and making the big bucks argument about why I shouldn't complain about having an absentee husband and my kids have an absentee father.

A happy outcome doesn't necessarily justify the journey it took to get there.

[Vanquisher]

Re: Sarah Palin?

I wonder if he was somewhat forced into the whole marriage thing.

[Sheherezade]

Re: Sarah Palin?

True.

I guess I'm stuck in that self-sacrificing mind set. You sacrifice for your mom to be the first woman VP and maybe even President... maybe that's a workable theory? Of course, that is a very traditional feminine role. I wonder how this would play out if Bristol refused to marry or refused to have/keep the baby. Would she then be a "bad" daughter? Would people wonder if SP was a "bad" mother because she *hadn't* successfully passed on the right values? I can't tell you how many commentaries I've heard praising her for passing on "the right values" and "raising her daughter right". G- forbid Bristol chose the "wrong" thing in this situation.

[SuzySunshine]

Re: Sarah Palin?

According to his mom they were planning to get married before they found out she was pg, that was in an interview yesterday. :huh:

[Sheherezade]

Re: Sarah Palin?

Um, yeah.

I don't buy it. I don't see her as someone that would encourage her 17 year old senior to be engaged. Maybe I'm wrong, but 17 with an acknowledged, parentally-supported plan to marry? :huh: I don't see that but that may be my own culture talking. I'd want her to wait.

Re: Sarah Palin?

Abstinence only is pretty much the mantra of the Republican party's prolife segment, and I think we can ask Sarah Palin how well that works

Ok, this is something I don't understand, that folks don't seem to understand. The conservative thought on abstinence only education isn't that you don't teach your kids sex ed, it's that they don't want schools to teach sex ed. This very point was brought up on Diane Rehm, and the gent yesterday on the show said, he could not say what Sarah Palin taught her daughter regarding sex ed. To say her daughter didn't know how to "stay safe" because her mom was for abstinence only school education, doesn't mean they didn't have "the talk". I for one also don't want the schools telling my kids about sex ed. I was taught the rhythem method at school by our gym teacher in sex ed. Yep, sex on the 15th day of your cycle is how you get pregnant. Our school was swarming with pregnant bellies, so much for sex ed working. This is what parents worry about, incorrect eduction or their personal family values not being address.
Nothing personal Jenn, just heard this many times and I feel like banging my head against the way. It's not Sarah Palin's fault that her daughter is pregnant, period.

It's just that the evidence - someone please find it for me because I am not a debater and don't want to back up my claim - shows that abstinence only education does not work, and unfortunately a lot of kids do not get sex education at home. Further, I believe it is a parents right to have their children opt out of sex ed, but we should provide this education in full to the masses, IMO. From my experience it is very clinical and does not promote early sexual activity, but rather discusses pregnancy and sexually transmitted infections. When I was in sexual education classes in junior high (in the most right wing republican state in the US, BTW), evidence was given in facts and figures for percentages of failure rates for various methods and warnings about which methods protected one from sexually transmitted infections. There was evidence that the only fool proof method was abstinence, and they left it at that. Certainly, sex wasn't pushed on us as acceptable or fun or anything else, it was just - this is what can happen if you choose to have sex. I really don't see what is wrong with that. Oh, and if you think your kids don't know what sex is by junior high and they go to school, you're wrong. They are going to get the information at school anyway. Would you rather it was from their peers or from teachers? WHich do you think is going to provide more false information and pressure?

I totally agree with Heidi here. Of course it's not Sarah Palin's fault that Bristol is pregnant. I don't think she stood over them with mood music and said "put tab A into slot B". But as Angie pointed out earlier, if it were a liberal's child who ended up pregnant, the "family values" groups would be banging the "loose morals" and "crappy parenting" drum. THAT is the hypocrisy that makes me nuts.

Good sex ed, good programs, good resources do help. No offense, but it doesn't sound like your PE teacher was providing much of that.

Re: Sarah Palin?

Jenn, I don't think we'd ever approve live birth abortions. I don't think (God, I hope) they were intended but maybe botched partial birth abortions--either the baby was delivered too quickly or slipped out and the doctor couldn't/wouldn't finish it after that point so they just left them alone in die. :huh: I dunno what happened. Initally partial birth abortions were upheld by the supreme court, however when it came to light that the procedure was being abused and/or botched with hours, sometimes up to 8, of these babies being left to suffer horribly the ban was signed and enacted. The procedure is completely unnecessary for fetuses under 24 weeks, and in fact has greater medical risks for the mother than other abortion procedures. The only point that partial birth abortion becomes more desirable is after the 24 week mark (viability) due to the baby's size. So why the hard push for partial birth abortions? Deep down I don't think a very vocal and active prochoice group is happy with the status quo and their legislative pushes show that. I've heard the argument that some parent's desire partial birth abortions so that they can hold their baby afterwards. However, I have a hard time reconciling that if these parents are selecting an abortion to prevent their child's suffering, then why would they support a abortion procedure that has been proven to have a risk for abuse, error and unspeakable suffering for other premature babies? I think it's one of those cases where some parents might have to give up what they desire to circumvent the risk of other babies' prolong suffering. Why would you risk that suffering even once if it's completely unnecessary before 24 weeks? Why the hard push for partial birth abortions? I realize not all prochoice advocates are necessarily supporters of partial birth abortions, however I think it's something that deserves closer, cautious examination within the prochoice community and what it really says about where some people are pushing hard to take abortion.
:soapbox:

I think abortion and limiting it is one of the places where left-wingers go berserk and lose all common sense. (Similar to gun rights and the omnipresent "slippery slope" the right wing often refers to. If we make common sense reform to the laws governing accessiblity of guns that are NOT NECESSARY in the home or hunting arsenal, then we're a second from taking away all gun ownership in this country.)

I don't think doctors who perform abortions are evil, Mengele-types who seek to inflict torture on a fetus. I don't know the ins and outs of why late term abortions are ever provided, but can only assume that it's not based on a whim, but more likely the diagnosis of a disease where the baby would certianly die upon birth. Forcing a woman to carry such a pregnancy to term is also hideous and cruel IMO. I think legislation ensuring such tight restrictions would make sense, but would also be unlikely due to the "slippery slope" - this time on the left-side.

And now - back to Sarah Palin, Levi, her MIL (and we think our MIL's are nutty), etc.

[DCJenn]

Re: Sarah Palin?

Mcain was probably thinking, 'egads, you poor schmo...'

Jenn

Re: Sarah Palin?

I'd just like to point out how truly level-headed this conversation has been. We've touched on SEVERAL hugely hot-button topics, but everyone has maintained their decorum and composure.

Yay iMSN!

I've enjoyed the back and forth of this - and I hope others have, too.

[Sheherezade]

Re: Sarah Palin?

Tara, Sally - I can honestly say that I also have a DH in the business and he has never met an abortion doc that was in it for the money. He's met docs at med schools that perform abortions - but they tend to be older activist types that lectured him on the horrors they saw in the 60s with young teenagers coming in to their departments bleeding and half dead from kitchen table botched jobs. :huh:

Maybe because we have always lived in cities in which abortion was more available? We've never had a money bags doc situation in our area - but we did live around the corner from the abortion clinic in Brookline that was firebombed. My kids and I got to walk past protesters (peaceful) at least once a week. So, we've been around clinics. Maybe supply and demand make it less lucrative in the cities?

I just want you to know that I've never met this doctor type. I'm sure they exist, but they aren't universal in OB/Gyn. I'm kind of shocked to see this presented as a universal since we've been in the company of OBs for the last 12 years and never encountered it.

[Momo]

Re: Sarah Palin?

Holy Moly talk about stepping in it...take a listen to peggy Noonan and the other two that were hot miked, but didn't know it
http://<br /> <a href="http://www.hu...23647.html</a>

[SuzySunshine]

Re: Sarah Palin?

I think people are hoping that she'll give them some new information, I think they'll be disappointed. We're not going to know what she's really like until she has to do a live interview or a debate.

What is with idiots with mikes? First Jesse Jackson and now these guys, come one! I've been on local television and now better then to NEVER say anything you wouldn't want recorded whether you think your mike is on or not.

[GrayMatterWife]

Re: Sarah Palin?

Holy Moly talk about stepping in it...take a listen to peggy Noonan and the other two that were hot miked, but didn't know it
http://<br /> <a href="http://www.hu...23647.html</a>

I am not at all surprised. Noonan was....uh, less than enthusiastic ON the record over the past few days.

At least she didn't threat to rip off Palin's gonads!

Re: Sarah Palin?

Ok I don't know where my first reply went!

Jenn, I want to reiterate what I didn't clarify, that I DO support sex ed at school, just not for my kids. I am an involved parent, like many involved parents I don't want someone I don't know talking to my kids about such a sensitive subject. It's not evil, but depending on the teacher, much bias can come out of the class and many things may not be talked about. I got on the pill right before I got married at 18, on my own. I went to a clinic, and my parents weren't about to help me out. I think that was wrong of them. See, there are side affects of the pill, and that should be discussed with girls, and if an involved parent wants to do that - that is MORE effective than a gym teacher. But there are to many uninvolved parents for this resource to be taken away.

And Heidi, you talked about how your kids will find out in middle school about sex, of course they will - but I want to talk to them, not some unknown teacher who walks in and out of your life for a semester.

My point is that abstinence doesn't equate ignorance. Some would rather do the job personally.