Sarah Palin?

[SuzySunshine]

Re: Sarah Palin?

I agree that Palin's husband should step up and take more responsibility and since they live in the AK Governor's mansion with no chef (she fired him, said they didn't need one) I'm sure he has. And if they were to win they'd be moving to DC, I don't think he's going to be doing much oil drilling there. But my point is that if you were 17 years old and just had your first child who would you want around, your dad or your mom? I'd much rather have my mom around to help me learn how to breastfeed. Maybe she and her fiance are going to stay in Alaska and she'll have her MIL. I don't know its a slippery slope.

But like I said before mom or not I don't think she's qualified for this job.

[SuzySunshine]

Re: Sarah Palin?

So I can't find it online but sometime yesterday (MSNBC reported it during their primetime coverage) Obama said that he has more executive experience then Sarah Palin because he's been running his campaign for 18 months. BAD move. Now the RNC's speaking points for today are that Obama's "experience is running for president". :huh:

Re: Sarah Palin?

Or maybe she's not going to breastfeed. Just kiding, I totally get your point. I just think if it was a man we wouldn't be discussing this at all and that really sucks IMO.

If she were a man and all of this were going on, I'd think "How lovely that he up & leaves his family in turmoil while his wife is stuck juggling all of these issues." I'd still think it was too much to leave and/or an indication that his focus might be severely tried during all of this. I don't give a man a pass in this scenario - at all.

As far as Laker's comment on the Obamas and who cared for their children, I know that her mother has played a large role, and I'm sure they have a nanny (or 'ies'). My cousin's SIL/BIL actually worked with Michelle at UofC, and their kids attend the same school (and the SIL/BIL in question have THREE nannies - she's a peds ENT and he's a big wig in Peds Surg). Not one person here has said that being a parent should preclude someone from public office. The issue(s) being discussed are: whether Palin is getting the same critique a man would, and whether having kids with some big time additional needs would change that arguement either way.

Re: Sarah Palin?

who cared for Obama's kids when he is in the senate and his wife was working? She just quit in '07, and prior to that, she was working... haven't heard anything about this.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 02573.html

I don't think his wife should have been home with kids -- or that Sarah Palin should be either -- but that when one parent is in a major time-suck of a career, the other might have to modify, mom or dad.

[DCJenn]

Re: Sarah Palin?

As far as I know, Michelle's mother lives a few blocks away from them and has been doing the bulk of the child care for a long time.

Jenn

Re: Sarah Palin?

Well, now I am thoroughly discouraged on the abortion issue. :bummer: Can I have a buffet line President where I get to pick & choose qualities, please? (And of course, I get to pick for the rest of the country... :> Just kidding. )

Didn't McCain get some flack for continuing to run after all his family was going through? There's no doubt there's a double standard, but there have at least been some whispers of keeping men accountable for not dragging their families through crap.

Re: Sarah Palin?

Well, now I am thoroughly discouraged on the abortion issue. :bummer:

What has changed on the abortion issue during this thread?

[DCJenn]

Re: Sarah Palin?

Oh and Biden actually offered to resign the Senate position and was convinced to stay- that's the whole he was sworn into the Senate at the hospital bedside of his child. And why he commutes back and forth to DC (still).

Like I have said, families are messy, and either everyone gets it right (for their family) or none of us do.

Jenn

Re: Sarah Palin?

Well, now I am thoroughly discouraged on the abortion issue. :bummer:

What has changed on the abortion issue during this thread?

My mind... on how acceptable Obama's position is. I like him for just about everything else.

[DCJenn]

Re: Sarah Palin?

My take on most issues that are social services related is that the most financially and ethically responsbile thing we can do is prevention.

Much like what we're doing with the public intoxicants in San Antonio- get them into treatment rather than throw them in jail at a cost savings of thousands of dollars per person and a time savings of hours per client for each cop. (we get them processed in to the unit in 15-20 minutes, if they're arrested and taken to the magistrates court or to the ER, it can be 4-8 hours off the streets PER police officer)

For topics like abortion, I think the better way to strategize is to not focus in reducing the number of abortions, but to reduce the number of unwanted pregnancies to start with. My ladies in the methadone clinic don't have abortions. They have a baby a year that ends up in the foster care system at a cost of a million dollars per child for the lifetime of care, including the typical 3+ week NICU stay. They have ALL said that they want better access to birth control but there are so many factors that work against them- public transportation, costs for the birth control (everso wisely, Medicaid doesn't cover it), a transient poverty based lifestyle, a fear of the system, not understanding how the various birth control options work, a cultural bias against it and finally they defer to their partners. As difficult as abortion may be, there are MUCH MUCH bigger societal issues that need to be addressed that can directly and potentially more easily impact both the foster care system and the numbers of women seeking abortions.

It's kind of like the mental health system- it's all fine and dandy to close the horrific mental institutions but when there's no back-up service available, we end up dealing with the societal cost of homeless, crazy dudes wandering the streets.

Up front logical systems. Not bandaids and not services that have demonstrated that they don't work or are more expensive than others for no better care.

and IF families can afford to pay for services then it is their responsibility to do so. Period. Everyone in our clinic pays for their medication- (unless they're pregnant- we don't charge them as an enticement to stay in treatment). We base it on income and the costs range from $2.50/day to $8.00/day. My boss did a study and the least compliant clients we have ever had are the ones who don't invest in their own care.

So- that's my tirade for the day.

Jenn

Re: Sarah Palin?

Obama's position isn't necessarily the one that Annie outlined. While I agree with her that people from both parties would very much like to reduce teen pregnancy, the tactics that the various groups are willing to use vary greatly. Abstinence only is pretty much the mantra of the Republican party's prolife segment, and I think we can ask Sarah Palin how well that works. The dems are much more agressive about actual, effective, PROVEN prevention methods.

The extreme cases that Annie listed earlier are just that - extreme (and beyond the pale, in my opinion). While I can't speak to whether or not Obama backs those methods, I think the likelihood of those kinds of procedures actually being approved -- and used -- is slim to none. My feeling here is similar to those who've said they don't think it's likely that Roe v. Wade would ever be overturned.

I am by no means pro-abortion. The mere idea sickens me, and I am grateful beyond belief that I have never been faced with such a decision. People who use it just as "birth control" (multiple abortions) make me ill. However, I do think the option needs to be there, for there are times when a pregnancy just is not an option in a woman's life. In that trapped scenario, women will revert to seeking back-alley abortions, and we've seen how that works.

[SuzySunshine]

Re: Sarah Palin?

A good and well articulated article on the "mommy wars"

http://www.newsweek.com/id/156923

Re: Sarah Palin?

Abstinence only is pretty much the mantra of the Republican party's prolife segment, and I think we can ask Sarah Palin how well that works

Ok, this is something I don't understand, that folks don't seem to understand. The conservative thought on abstinence only education isn't that you don't teach your kids sex ed, it's that they don't want schools to teach sex ed. This very point was brought up on Diane Rehm, and the gent yesterday on the show said, he could not say what Sarah Palin taught her daughter regarding sex ed. To say her daughter didn't know how to "stay safe" because her mom was for abstinence only school education, doesn't mean they didn't have "the talk". I for one also don't want the schools telling my kids about sex ed. I was taught the rhythem method at school by our gym teacher in sex ed. Yep, sex on the 15th day of your cycle is how you get pregnant. Our school was swarming with pregnant bellies, so much for sex ed working. This is what parents worry about, incorrect eduction or their personal family values not being address.
Nothing personal Jenn, just heard this many times and I feel like banging my head against the way. It's not Sarah Palin's fault that her daughter is pregnant, period.

[Vanquisher]

Re: Sarah Palin?

Abstinence only is pretty much the mantra of the Republican party's prolife segment, and I think we can ask Sarah Palin how well that works

Ok, this is something I don't understand, that folks don't seem to understand. The conservative thought on abstinence only education isn't that you don't teach your kids sex ed, it's that they don't want schools to teach sex ed. This very point was brought up on Diane Rehm, and the gent yesterday on the show said, he could not say what Sarah Palin taught her daughter regarding sex ed. To say her daughter didn't know how to "stay safe" because her mom was for abstinence only school education, doesn't mean they didn't have "the talk". I for one also don't want the schools telling my kids about sex ed. I was taught the rhythem method at school by our gym teacher in sex ed. Yep, sex on the 15th day of your cycle is how you get pregnant. Our school was swarming with pregnant bellies, so much for sex ed working. This is what parents worry about, incorrect eduction or their personal family values not being address.
Nothing personal Jenn, just heard this many times and I feel like banging my head against the way. It's not Sarah Palin's fault that her daughter is pregnant, period.

It's just that the evidence - someone please find it for me because I am not a debater and don't want to back up my claim - shows that abstinence only education does not work, and unfortunately a lot of kids do not get sex education at home. Further, I believe it is a parents right to have their children opt out of sex ed, but we should provide this education in full to the masses, IMO. From my experience it is very clinical and does not promote early sexual activity, but rather discusses pregnancy and sexually transmitted infections. When I was in sexual education classes in junior high (in the most right wing republican state in the US, BTW), evidence was given in facts and figures for percentages of failure rates for various methods and warnings about which methods protected one from sexually transmitted infections. There was evidence that the only fool proof method was abstinence, and they left it at that. Certainly, sex wasn't pushed on us as acceptable or fun or anything else, it was just - this is what can happen if you choose to have sex. I really don't see what is wrong with that. Oh, and if you think your kids don't know what sex is by junior high and they go to school, you're wrong. They are going to get the information at school anyway. Would you rather it was from their peers or from teachers? WHich do you think is going to provide more false information and pressure?

[SuzySunshine]

Re: Sarah Palin?

How would you like to be this poor kid? One day you're just "Levi", a few days later your MySpace page has been removed and you're meeting the Republican presidential candidate because you got his running mate kid's pregnant. While it looks like someone is wiping something off of the back of your shirt.