Bullying in Med School

[SoonerTexan]

And I think complaining about a situation [which is what is going on right now] and then doing nothing about it is a big waste of time [for the complainer and those who have to listen to the complainer]. Bullying happens. I got bullied. My kid got bullied. I did not sit around discussing the unfairness of the matter. I took action. And again being in medical school is a CHOICE. If you're being bullied, don't put up with it. Or put up with it. Just don't CHOSE to endure the bullying and then complain about it. That's my point. It's not apples and oranges. I'm not a big complainer. I just don't see the point in it. Especially complaining followed by inaction. It just fills the space with negativeness that it counterproductive to living a healthy life [emotionally and physically]. And perhaps I just can't stand complainers.

Except here's the problem...if there's true bullying going on in med school and residency, there really isn't much you can do about it without risking your career. And most people aren't willing to risk their entire livelihood--they'd rather just keep their heads down and suck it up. You're stuck. Inaction is the only option. Or in some cases it seems like even just "taking it" can eventually risk your career if the bully is a big enough asshole. Then you're really screwed. I don't care if choosing medicine is a choice. A career choice shouldn't mean having to accept behavior that belittles you on the most basic level. I recognize for some people that is the reality, but that sure as hell doesn't make them whiners to me. I thank God we are in a good place right now.

So if complaining is all you can do, fine with me, especially here. Maybe somebody in the right place will finally listen. Or maybe it will just help you get through it without losing your sanity.

Sorry Thirteen...time to move it to debates?

[ladymoreta]

Sorry Thirteen...time to move it to debates?

Oops, I wasn't paying attention and thoughts that's where we were! My apologies!

[madeintaiwan]

Except here's the problem...if there's true bullying going on in med school and residency, there really isn't much you can do about it without risking your career. And most people aren't willing to risk their entire livelihood--they'd rather just keep their heads down and suck it up. You're stuck. Inaction is the only option. Or in some cases it seems like even just "taking it" can eventually risk your career if the bully is a big enough asshole. Then you're really screwed. I don't care if choosing medicine is a choice. A career choice shouldn't mean having to accept behavior that belittles you on the most basic level. I recognize for some people that is the reality, but that sure as hell doesn't make them whiners to me. I thank God we are in a good place right now.

So if complaining is all you can do, fine with me, especially here. Maybe somebody in the right place will finally listen. Or maybe it will just help you get through it without losing your sanity.

Sorry Thirteen...time to move it to debates?

Because history has shown that ONLY complaining changes the "wrongs" in this world [insert serious eyeroll]. There is complaining about a bad day and then there is complaining about supposed injustices and then doing nothing about them. If your career is worth just "taking it" then take it and move on. Or do you need everyone to know that you're "taking it" and give you a sticker for just "taking it" like everyone one else is?

I joined this site 6 years ago, it was a an amazing source for support and for information. I have made friends and maintained real life friendships with some amazing people from this site. However, the past year has been filled with an abundance of just flat out complaining. There is a reason why a good number of long time members have left THIS year. This is the new generation. Carry on.

[v-girl]

Because history has shown that ONLY complaining changes the "wrongs" in this world [insert serious eyeroll]. There is complaining about a bad day and then there is complaining about supposed injustices and then doing nothing about them. If your career is worth just "taking it" then take it and move on. Or do you need everyone to know that you're "taking it" and give you a sticker for just "taking it" like everyone one else is?

I joined this site 6 years ago, it was a an amazing source for support and for information. I have made friends and maintained real life friendships with some amazing people from this site. However, the past year has been filled with an abundance of just flat out complaining. There is a reason why a good number of long time members have left THIS year. This is the new generation. Carry on.

Wow. That was harsh. I guess if someone isn't as strong as you they don't deserve to be here? I'm more of a lardass than a hardass. Perhaps I don't belong.

[Chrisada]

V, I really think MIT is saying that she feels SHE no longer fits in here because of how things have shifted. And they have.

[diggitydot]

I joined this site 6 years ago, it was a an amazing source for support and for information. I have made friends and maintained real life friendships with some amazing people from this site. However, the past year has been filled with an abundance of just flat out complaining. There is a reason why a good number of long time members have left THIS year. This is the new generation. Carry on.

We support each other. Period. Sometimes things are a shitfest. We support each other through the assholery, even if we are the ones being assholes. Sometimes things are awesome and we celebrate each other's successes.

I sincerely hope you've received support here, but knocking others who need support for different reasons or in different ways from yourself isn't cool in my book.

We have ebbs and flows for membership and activity levels. That's how life functions. If a member isn't getting anything out of the interactions or doesn't feel like they have anything constructive to give to another member, maybe self-limiting that exposure here is best for all involved.

[TulipsAndSunscreen]

I joined this site 6 years ago, it was a an amazing source for support and for information. I have made friends and maintained real life friendships with some amazing people from this site. However, the past year has been filled with an abundance of just flat out complaining. There is a reason why a good number of long time members have left THIS year. This is the new generation. Carry on.

Wow. I'm sorry you feel that way.

Do you feel not supported because of the "whining"? Or you just don't like reading it/supporting "whiners"?

[MissCrabette]

I didn't "leave" because of the whining per se or because I don't feel supported. I still post occasionally, but things are very busy.

I will say this, however. I value support as long as it's mostly constructive and not just pats on the back. I've been noticing for a few years now that people are more inclined to say "there, there, we understand" than to be brutally honest and offer constructive advice. We really are turning into softies. Life sucks. Do something about it.

On the other hand, I also see the point of view that few outsiders would understand the specific issues of medicine, so this is a good place to vent. Then again, there are other equally demanding jobs out there. Doctors aren't all that special.

[ladymoreta]

I joined this site 6 years ago, it was a an amazing source for support and for information. I have made friends and maintained real life friendships with some amazing people from this site. However, the past year has been filled with an abundance of just flat out complaining. There is a reason why a good number of long time members have left THIS year. This is the new generation. Carry on.

Now see, this is a fantastic illustration of my point. Your post may discourage some members from participating in the rant/vent thread anymore. It may also prevent some newcomers from creating threads for advice for fear that it may be interpreted as whining. There will be more room for posting about figuratively walking uphill both ways in the snow and liking it, but that wasn't really a niche that was getting crowded out anyway. It seems like most of us who joined over the past 4 years I've been here came here for advice and support, and unfortunately for the old-timers, we are pretty prolific. But you're right about people leaving. If, like you say, they are not participating due to a disagreement with the direction of this site, it fits in perfectly with your point that people should leave the field of medicine if it's not what they want for their lives. I hope you stay around - I value your insight even if I don't always agree - but I totally understand your point about not voluntarily participating in something you can only complain about, and trying to change it if you want to stay.

[diggitydot]

I will say this, however. I value support as long as it's mostly constructive and not just pats on the back. I've been noticing for a few years now that people are more inclined to say "there, there, we understand" than to be brutally honest and offer constructive advice. We really are turning into softies. Life sucks. Do something about it.

Support looks differently to different people. Some want brutal honesty; others seek comfort and reassurance. That doesn't make anyone weak or an asshole. It just makes us all different.

There aren't any points awarded for martyrdom.

[SoonerTexan]

Well that went to hell fast. Jeez.

[Thirteen]

I logged in, and made this face: :-O.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[v-girl]

Support looks differently to different people. Some want brutal honesty; others seek comfort and reassurance. That doesn't make anyone weak or an asshole. It just makes us all different.

There aren't any points awarded for martyrdom.

This.

[PrincessFiona]

There is a reason why a good number of long time members have left THIS year. This is the new generation. Carry on.

Why yes. There are several. Like:

1. Feeling like their lives had outgrown the training years and after years out-of-training started branching out into the post-training life and not needing the site as much. They still touch base ... just not as often.
2. Not liking me ... because you know ... I am the devil incarnate and everything that they didn't like was my fault.
3. They were life-sucking, snarky bitches who stirred the pot behind-the-scenes by bad-mouthing others and always needing to be *in-the-know*. They aren't missed. The support and honestly has improved a lot since these individuals walked out. Thank Goodness...
4. They were the kind of members who enjoyed a good dog pile and were quick to jump on new members who expressed the same issues they had brought up years ago but didn't like being taken to task for belittling and jumping on others.
5. They were bullies. Like you. Bullying is never acceptable in any circumstance and I am taking action. You are not welcome here anymore. Please do not come back madeintaiwan. This is a supportive organization and people are free to complain, whine, cry on each other's shoulders, celebrate victories, cheer each other on when things are going well and shouldn't have to be afraid of being called names or of being belittled.

Go the way of the other long-term members who were unhappy here and stay away.

Kris

[Cinderella]

Reading this thread has all been very educating.

I can only speak from personal past experiences. I've had a boss touch me while in the middle of work. Which I was a teenager and was in such shock that I didn't do anything about it. I've had a co-worker sexually assault me while in the middle of work but I was in my early twenties and went straight to the boss who said he'd fire the man on the spot if it made me feel comfortable. The dude caught me in a room alone by coming up behind me, grabbing my breasts and started kissing the back side of me. We'd never spoken before or even really looked at each other and just met that day on shift. I just asked the boss since the guy was from a foreign country, Mexico, to discipline him and make sure he knew that behavior was inappropriate. Maybe I'm too nice but I knew he was probably an illegal working here and sending money back home and was lonely and drunk on shift. Becaaaaause that's just some wonka wonka behavior. lol.

I also had two clients sexually assault me...which each were different and weird experiences. Oh hell there was work place violence too but not involving me. One place I worked there was a feud between two girls that went back to high school and involved a mutual man they'd both been with. One of which had a child by him. One day one of the girls was high on crack (which I was totally clueless about until I read it in the newspaper) went looking to rob the other girl. They were the only two at work and she knew she'd be working the night shift alone. So in her pulled over her head hoodie "crack head co-worker" took a baseball bat to the head of the "babies mama girl" and killed her in cold "cracked out" blood. Drugs make people do some crazy chit and it doesn't matter where you work.

When I was a teenager living on my own with my other teenager high school bestie I had this sonic car hop job and a guy that would come to the place all the time showed up at my apartments and invited himself in for a visit. I was creeped out he knew were I lived but he said he was driving by and saw me from the street outside my apartment hanging out with some neighbor friends. I didn't know what to do so he sat on our couch and watched all us girls running around our apartment living our lives. Eeeks. My roommate finally asked me to ask him to leave and I felt real embarrassed and uncomfortable about it but was relieved when he left.

I have lots of work stories. So to narrow it down I'll talk about working in a medical setting. At one place everyone was professional and kind and considerate. Maybe because it was a catholic hospital? That didn't mean crazy things didn't happen there. At another place the culture was very niche and sucked so I cycled out quick like. At another place and working seven and a half years in my field I was passed up for a position by a 23 year old who was the daughter of the director of HR. That show of nepotism really burned me but motivated me to move on and do something I'm really proud of. It wasn't the answer but it created something neat.

I've also had the berating boss who is so verbally abusive that nobody is happy and most everybody has left because of it. That boss went after me once but I stood up for myself in front of everyone and told him it was offensive. He respected me after that. He also told me it's just who he is because he's from New York and I should go to New York to see. As if being from New York and being the Boss makes that kind of behavior acceptable.

At another job for a financial firm I was new at I found I was getting a lot of chain emails about political stuff from one person that seemed to be sent to everyone. I found many of them to be offensive stuff. So I emailed him to please stop sending me these emails. He replied back alright. Then I told my two senior financial executives about it and the female one got upset because it turned out that I'd emailed the CEO of the company. She told me very seriously that I shouldn't have done what I'd done. I never saw any fallout from it though and the offensive political spam emails from the CEO stopped coming to me. lol