The Election

[TulipsAndSunscreen]

I'm just stunned at some of the demographic numbers. Trump won more African American votes than Romney (by percentage)...REALLY? Stop and frisk by race, REALLY? Trump won 1/3 of the Latino vote in Florida? I know many FL Latinos are not 1st generation immigrants (many Cubans for example) but that's just insane to me when he's talking about building walls and calling Mexicans rapists (the average American is unlikely to distinguish much between Mexicans and Cubans, sadly).

How did the Dems not see this (particularly the FL thing).

[MrsK]

I'm just stunned at some of the demographic numbers. Trump won more African American votes than Romney (by percentage)...REALLY? Stop and frisk by race, REALLY? Trump won 1/3 of the Latino vote in Florida? I know many FL Latinos are not 1st generation immigrants (many Cubans for example) but that's just insane to me when he's talking about building walls and calling Mexicans rapists (the average American is unlikely to distinguish much between Mexicans and Cubans, sadly).

How did the Dems not see this (particularly the FL thing).

In South Florida, Cubans are generally a conservative voting block. More often Republican than Democrat.

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[SoonerTexan]

#NeverTrump camp who said with their vote that they'd rather him win than vote for Hillary

She didn't exactly do anything to reach out to that camp. Especially Catholics like me.

[OrionGrad]

She didn't exactly do anything to reach out to that camp. Especially Catholics like me.

It might be because you're living in Texas, but I think in certain states they did run a number on tv commercials aimed at wooing the #nevertrump crowd. We don't see too many campaign commercials here in CA because they figure we're already in the bag for dems.

[TulipsAndSunscreen]

In South Florida, Cubans are generally a conservative voting block. More often Republican than Democrat.

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Yes but I've read multiple articles still saying it was WAY more for Trump than expected.

[SoonerTexan]

It might be because you're living in Texas, but I think in certain states they did run a number on tv commercials aimed at wooing the #nevertrump crowd. We don't see too many campaign commercials here in CA because they figure we're already in the bag for dems.

I literally do not watch any live TV, so I blessedly got out of watching political ads.

As for why people like me voted 3rd party, even when I think Donald Trump is so bad...think about it like this:

Imagine Trump happened in the Democratic Party instead of the Republican Party. And let the Hillary stand in be Ted Cruz. It's not a perfect comparison, but they both very obviously lusted after the presidency, are more unlikeable than usual (for a politician) even within their own parties, and take uncompromising stances on issues that are very important to certain voters.

So you have Ted vs DemTrump. And then a candidate comes out of the blue (Elizabeth Warren for this situation? Bernie? I don't know. Imagine someone you actually identify with and seems like would be good for the job). You think this person probably wont win, but they have a good chance of shaping the future of the party and making it clear that the status quo candidate is unacceptable.

And then there is the fact that the press has pretty much declared a victory for Ted Cruz anyway...

Who are you going to vote for?

[rufflesanddots]

I understand what you're trying to say, ST. I do. I imagine this was an extremely frustrating election for you.

I am having immense difficulty accepting it, though. It's only been a week and reports of hate crimes are rising significantly. Trump has not only downplayed reports of the increase but merely asked his supporters / those he emboldened to "stop it." That's it? "Stop it"? Ef, man.

So many people saw this coming and so many people didn't act. I didn't do enough either as a swing state resident, obviously. I could've been out there talking more and trying to encourage other residents to vote Dem.

I just don't find comfort in the Trump protest / 3rd party votes logic right now and I'm not sure I ever will. I know this word makes many people cringe, but there's an element of privilege in voting for someone who makes you feel good versus making a difficult choice to actually prevent a dangerous person from coming into office. I know I said it earlier in another thread, but if keeping Trump out of office was the goal the only way to really ensure that was to vote HRC. I hear what people are saying about their distaste for her and Trump and the political system as a whole, but, well, here we are with a known White supremacist being appointed to a chief WH strategy position. I guess I find myself wondering if it was worth it.

[SoonerTexan]

No, she flat out supported things (i.e. abortion) that I find extremely wrong and other things that make me feel attacked in my liberties. So I voted for someone that wasn't Trump, but also was a good person (as far as I can tell) and does not support (at least as many things) that I find flat out wrong and unable to support. Excuse my privilege.

Well thank goodness everyone who bravely voted for Hillary had the relief of knowing that not only were they voting against Trump, but also the superior good. I mean, obviously.

http://www.vox.com/2016/4/21/1145137...can-liberalism

I also see a bit of myself in that article and I'm sorry for it. It does a pretty good job of describing what frustrates me most about political discussions. I'm pretty sure it is why 1/2 of IMSN no longer participates in in discussions like these. There's no alternate views or opinions allowed on certain issues. You're just wrong. Do not explain yourself. Do not pass go. And you might be a racist/bigot/insert whatever here. And if you don't "get it" well "go check your privilege honey, because you might be the same race/education/socioeconomic status as I am, but good golly, I somehow get it and you don't. I wish you understood. It would be so much better for you."
@rufflesanddots this isn't really directed at you, but my frustration at where we are in general.

That article was written well before the election, by the way.

[TulipsAndSunscreen]

I don't think we can call it privilege for people to exercise their own vote in a way that aligns with their values. It's not fair that I should use my vote to "rescue" anyone else. I should get to vote FOR a candidate who represents my values (to the extent that any candidate can do that).

This election was depressing as hell. I voted for a woman who is very much for limiting religious freedoms (mostly more conservative Christian ones like mine) to prevent a racist psycho from taking office. And the racist still won.

So that's awesome.

[rufflesanddots]

I'm not even really sure how to respond.

Everyone is hurting. What a mess.

[OrionGrad]

FWIW, iMSN has really opened up my eyes to where people from different political viewpoints are coming from. [MENTION=1889]SoonerTexan[/MENTION], I was actually using you as an example in explaining to DH recently why people would vote for third-party candidates. We're on opposite ends of the political spectrum in a lot of ways, but what you've posted about how your beliefs shaped how you vote helped me see things from a different perspective. All that is to say, I completely respect where you're coming from. I also think that [MENTION=4468]rufflesanddots[/MENTION] is right, everyone is hurting right now.

[Meenah]

Everyone take a deep cleansing breath!!!!!!

[SoonerTexan]

FWIW, I see the same thing on the Right, but it isn't pushed out there on a national level as the defacto truth courtesy of John Oliver and company. I yelled at my own father on election day I'm still trying to understand how anyone can wholesale endorse him as the best thing since sliced bread, as some of my extended family has. However, I do understand why some voted for him.

I'm honestly not really that upset...it's just hard to keep the sarcasm in at this point. I mean, everyone, including myself, expected Trump supporters to protest and throw a neverending hissyfit. I was incredulous at how he implied he would refuse to accept the results. Surely we can appreciate the irony of the other side doing just what they mocked the Trump Train for threatening to do?

Anyway, the discussion here has probably shaped my political views more than anything over the past 8 years--which is why it is frustrating to try and participate when you come in and your views are just WRONG.

Not that it has stopped me.

[ladymoreta]

I'm honestly not really that upset...it's just hard to keep the sarcasm in at this point. I mean, everyone, including myself, expected Trump supporters to protest and throw a neverending hissyfit. I was incredulous at how he implied he would refuse to accept the results. Surely we can appreciate the irony of the other side doing just what they mocked the Trump Train for threatening to do?

And then they mock the protesters for protesting, as if they weren't planning on it!

[spotty_dog]

I think ST's analogy is sound. I've often thought about what would happen if the party I associate with put up a candidate I could NOT abide on a moral and ethical basis, but the other party put up a candidate that fundamentally disagreed with me on policy positions I find important. I haven't got a clue what I'd do, except that I'm pretty sure I could not support the immoral and unethical candidate regardless. (And yes, I'm aware that from some viewpoints Clinton was the immoral and unethical candidate in this election. Stickier and stickier.)

What's really got me going lately is this issue of echo chambers. Conservatives are looking at conservative sites and listening to conservative sources and getting conservative filters on their Facebook. Liberals are looking at liberal sites and liberal news and getting liberal filters on their Facebook. And it deepens the divide and the lack of understanding and the sense that we don't live in the same America as "the other guys".

I've been added to some of the "secret" liberal/progressive groups on Facebook since the election, and they frankly alarm me. I thought my two crazy liberal aunties were one thing with their continual reposts from Daily Kos and Occupy Democrats and worse. But it's a steady stream on those other groups, which makes it harder and harder to separate fact from fiction. Even real news sites are almost impossible to sift out -- for example, Huffington Post, though liberal in its slant, does produce real journalistic pieces. But it also produces gobs of opinion columns that dilute the news, so when the link goes to HuffPo, who knows if it's going to be worth my time in terms of finding out useful info vs. reiterating a position I probably already hold?

I'm thinking of taking an honest to god news subscription just to help to filter that kind of thing out. I'm eyeing the Wall Street Journal or the NY Times (I sure do miss those crosswords!)