female chauvinist pigs

[houseelf]

I have conflicting emotions about this thought provoking article:

Girls gone wild
In "Female Chauvinist Pigs," Ariel Levy asks why so many young women today have embraced a raunchy, '50s-style sexuality.


For the text of the article go to:

http://www.salon.com/books/review/2005/ ... index.html

[houseelf]

Tip toeing into the debate forum---

On one hand, I understand the need for women to be able to express their sexuality and revel in it. At one extreme, homicides are committed and endorsed in parts of the world for what is thought of as excessive displays of female flesh or premarital sexual relations. In fact, it hasn't been too long ago in this country wherein women were discommunicated from families and hid shamefully away for pregnancies outside of marriages. (Hester Prynn, anyone?)

At our core, sexuality is a basic human need and function. Why deny healthy sexuality? Doesn't creating a shroud of shame about sexuality backfire and create even worse outcomes for women? If it is catholic confession time, I read Playboy right along side of my husband and freely admit my appreciation of a hot guy.

On the other hand, I deeply appreciate this author's critique of the rampant "anything goes" attitude towards sexuality in our culture. I'm bothered by the raunchiness infused into our culture at every turn. Seriously, has anyone turned on MTV or BET lately? It is not that porn and raunchiness is part of the content, it is the content exclusively, save for a smattering of violence and materialism. I, for one, have seen enough high school girls in thongs to stomach for a life time. Seriously, girls, let's have a little respect for our other attributes. Like, oh, I don't know, intelligence.

Anyway, what do you all think about this?

Kelly

[PrincessFiona]

Our Norton anti-virus won't let me into Salon because it blocks the ads...so I'll give my thoughts based some other independent reviews that I read.

From what I understand, she's coined the term 'raunch culture' (or her critics have) and she objects to the 'objectification of women'. I have to say that I, too, agree with that part....I don't know why men or women feel the need to flaunt their sexuality...I"m especially disturbed by the fact that it's almost impossible to find a decent outfit for my 9 year old daughter and that she talks non-stop now about growing boobs, when she's going to get her period and now insists that I buy her deoderant. I see her standing in front of the mirror smoothing down her shirt in an attempt to locate anything resembling "boobs" and I'm horrified.

I don't think anyone is suggesting denying sexuality, but I don't think that flaunting sexuality (even healthy sexuality) is necessarily...healthy. 1/2 naked women and men are paraded on the teli, in magazines and on billboards all over the place. Sex is put out there for our youngest children to see before they have the emotionaly maturity to understand or know how to deal with the images appropriately. My 9 year old little girl already feels that how she dresses and looks is of primary importance. That is what our hypersexed society complete with pics of 5'10" 100 pound anorexic women with boob jobs plastering the media has taught her. I hate that she asks me at least 3 times a week if she got her genes for 'fatness' from me or from Thomas.

Our society must begin to find a balance on issues and quit flipping between extremes of prudishness and blatant 'sex-on-the streets' promiscuity.

I'll definitely have to buy this book!!!! Thanks for the tip!

kris

[houseelf]

QUOTE

But I think it's a little polar. I think it's more about balancing *equally valued* unique strengths. You know, yen and yang.

Wow, so far...agreement. Clearly the pendulum has swung way, way too far and needs to come back. I hesitate, however, because our society is not known for moderation. There should be some room in a free society to talk about, critique, even idolize the taboo. (I said *some* people, don't start freaking out now).

Yes, I don't know how I'm going to handle my daughter's coming to age. I guess it is just incumbent upon us to be kick-ass examples of strong women who have self-respect and respect for other women. We women really are our own worst enemies.

Kelly

[DCJenn]

There's a Victoria's Secret display at a local mall that has taken this to new heights of ridiculousness. So, scene 1: Barbie Doll in VS lingerie wrapped up in ropes w/ a big smile. Scene 2: Two Barbie dolls lounging on a leather couch, one looking like she is about to kiss/fondle the other one Scene 3: A third Barbie Doll posing in the window with her lep up, like she's showing her stuff to the masses. and this is in the mall part that is specficially geared to the 'younger crowd'.

We are truly our own worst enemies. Jeez, remember when Madonna seemed risque? at least she had her parts covered.

I really think that the biggest part of this is the mysongeny that is tacitly approved through much of the popular music. It's hard to be respected or to beleive that you deserve to be respected when all you hear is how women are 'ho's having babies. Why is this a good thing? My husband's 16 and 20 year old neices have peircings and tats and one just got knocked up (luckily the older one) and it's like the bar has been set so low that they have NO dreams. It's really sad.

Jenn

[mommax3]

All I know is that whenever I go to Toys R Us I am so glad I only have boys.....those bratz dolls make my stomach turn!!! And I see the clothes, too, and am glad I don't have to deal with all of that. My boys don't have too much of an opinion about clothes, anyway, and flaunting sexuality isn't an issue in what they wear, so I get off easy there.

I really don't know how we expect to go back.....pandora's box has been opened. Everything descends to the lowest common denominator when standards are abandoned.

Sally

[PrincessFiona]

Sally, you are so right!

There's a Victoria's Secret display at a local mall that has taken this to new heights of ridiculousness. So, scene 1: Barbie Doll in VS lingerie wrapped up in ropes w/ a big smile. Scene 2: Two Barbie dolls lounging on a leather couch, one looking like she is about to kiss/fondle the other one Scene 3: A third Barbie Doll posing in the window with her lep up, like she's showing her stuff to the masses. and this is in the mall part that is specficially geared to the 'younger crowd'.

Jenn

WTF?

[Sheherezade]

Yeah...boys. I'm scared of them as teenagers, too. When I was prepping myself for "the talk" with my son this summer, I kept coming across advice for talking to your son about responsible sexuality -- as in, it's not nice to pressure girls or talk about them as objects AND certainly not nice to risk knocking someone up. Uhhhh -yeah. I wasn't at that level yet with my 9 year old - but I certainly hope DH makes himself more available for this kind of stuff by then! I don't think that's a mother-son talk. He could be in therapy for years. Hopefully they learn by example in the home as well as the community.

As for the article, I'm conflicted as well. I think the highly sexualized culture is just so blatantly MALE I can't see how anyone claims it as a victory for women. I'm all for sexual independence for women, but I just don't think you get Girls Gone Wild and Howard Stern (or Viagra, for that matter) in a female-lead society. Maybe an overload of erotica and certainly a surplus of those tawdry romance novels and birth control/disease control. It bothers me that my sexuality (and my daughter's) is controlled by a definition of what is "normal and healthy" by society. Honestly. Normal and healthy is a long way off from what we represent to yound women. And I'm tired of all these women writing in to Dear Abby complaining that they don't have a strong enough sex drive at 50 while their husbands gobble Viagra. Guess what guys? Slowing done is apparently "normal". Grrr.

That said, I am completely "normal and healthy". Really.

[DCJenn]

And by Barbie Doll, I mean, the full-size models- that happen to look like grown up versions of Barbie Dolls.

Needless to say it's gotten quite a bit of negative publicity!

http://www.wusatv9.com/news/news_art...?storyid=43515

I'd love to hear what you all think.

Jenn

[spotty_dog]

The quote you brought out, Annie, is a pretty good statement about how I feel about the whole "feminism" thing. There's a whole subculture running around thinking that it's bad to be interested in cooking and knitting and homemaking solely because it's a traditionally female activity! Um, if it's *bad* do do womanly things, how does that convey equality?

Yes, I don't know how I'm going to handle my daughter's coming to age. I guess it is just incumbent upon us to be kick-ass examples of strong women who have self-respect and respect for other women. We women really are our own worst enemies.

I think you'll do a great job of that, Kelly.

I was utterly inspired by some of the stories in Barbara Kingsolver's short story collection about her daughters. From the sounds of it, she has set her older daughter a fabulous example: she's set guidelines and lived her life according to her own values, and as a result she's bringing up a daughter who can be bright and sassy, have successful relationships with boys and girls, and still be respectful and act her age and choose to dress appropriately while expressing her personality. Who'da thunkit?

[mommax3]

Boys bring their own unique sexual challenges. They're constantly bombarded with these advertising campaigns, music, TV, etc. I'm sure some of their expectations/ideas are a little...off.

Annie,

I agree with you and didn't mean to leave the impression that I have gotten off the hook entirely. It just hasn't really started yet. My boys don't watch too much network t.v., so even the commercials, etc. have not really made an impression yet. Sometimes they see girls/young women wearing not much clothing OR tight clothes that look uncomfortable, and they seem genuinely puzzled as to why those girls don't just put on some jeans and a t-shirt. With my oldest, I have tried to explain about styles and that girls are trying to measure up to what society says is pretty. I am trying *so* hard to teach all of them that it is what is inside a person that makes them beautiful or ugly, and I remind them that all of the external stuff eventually wrinkles or sags, so they need to choose for the qualities that are lasting when they look for friends and especially spouses. I think the hardest years in that regard are still ahead for me, but I really feel for moms of girls.

Sally

[Rapunzel]

There's a Victoria's Secret display at a local mall that has taken this to new heights of ridiculousness. So, scene 1: Barbie Doll in VS lingerie wrapped up in ropes w/ a big smile. Scene 2: Two Barbie dolls lounging on a leather couch, one looking like she is about to kiss/fondle the other one Scene 3: A third Barbie Doll posing in the window with her lep up, like she's showing her stuff to the masses. and this is in the mall part that is specficially geared to the 'younger crowd'.

Holy Cow!

OK, that stirred me out of my current apathy.

I repeat: Holy Cow!

I may not be able to take my kids to the mall if this comes to my neck of the woods!

Jennifer

[Rapunzel]

The quote you brought out, Annie, is a pretty good statement about how I feel about the whole "feminism" thing. There's a whole subculture running around thinking that it's bad to be interested in cooking and knitting and homemaking solely because it's a traditionally female activity! Um, if it's *bad* do do womanly things, how does that convey equality?

Oh



my



goodness.



Hell just froze over because I












COMPLETELY agree with this, Alison.



I have more in common with you than I thought!!! 8)

Jennifer

[Auspicious]

The quote you brought out, Annie, is a pretty good statement about how I feel about the whole "feminism" thing. There's a whole subculture running around thinking that it's bad to be interested in cooking and knitting and homemaking solely because it's a traditionally female activity! Um, if it's *bad* do do womanly things, how does that convey equality?

Aw now, don't be hatin' on feminism! I think the whole "domesticity is dumb" thing was a proclivity of the Second Wave, and the Third Wave pretty well abandoned it, which was a big part of the rift between Second- and Third-Wavers, no? Feminist hipsters love them some knitting and sewing projects! Behold the knit uterus:
http://www.knitty.com/ISSUEwinter04/PATTwomb.html
And Stitch 'n Bitch gatherings are a national thing and not just out here, aren't they? Or are they? I think you see the same thing with cooking--it's just more Iron Chef-ish now and less Betty Crocker. People like being creative, so it's hard to squash those things even if you wanted to. It's an outdated feminism that poo-poos that stuff. I think now the emphasis is that you can choose to be into it, and you can choose not to.