Doctor or not?

I am interested in alternative health issues, and have found Dr Mercola to be a commonly quoted source in this field. He certainly has a lot to say about an awful lot of things, for better or for worse.

BUT...is he really a doctor? This is a link to his "educational qualifications": http://www.mercola.com/forms/background.htm.

Coming from outside the US, I find it tricky to analyse his resume. Is he a true doctor, in the same sense that our spouses are "doctors"? Or is he a well-qualified naturopathic doctor who is trying to sound a little more mainstream than he actually is?

[Vanquisher]

Yes, seems to be a "real" doctor.

I think most of our US spouses are MDs, but we may have a few DOs here too.

I am going to try to point out the differences without hurting anyone's feelings.

MD is referred to as allopathic whereas DO is osteopathic.
Allopathic medical school is harder to get into than osteopathic.
Osteopathic medical schools are generally (if not all) private schools.
Osteophathic schools typically cost more than allopathic, but not always...see Albany Medical College (Chad's ).
It is harder to get a residency spot, especially a competitive one from an osteopathic school, and there are very few osteopathic physicians in certain fields.
Allopathic schools concentrate on the more typical and standard "Western Medicine" philopsophies; although some schools do spend some time on alternative healing methods.
Osteopathic schools are generally more open to alternative healing methods and many teach chiropractics and many other alternative medicine ideas.
DOs are definitely considered doctors; although some doctors feel that they aren't as qualified.
Osteopathic medicine likes to say that they take a whole mind-body approach to medicine.

[Laker]

Michigan State University has both. They have the College of Human Medicine (MD) and and Osteopathic College of Medicine (COM). Both are state schools.

At Michigan State the MD and DO students take some of the first 2 year courses together, but then separate for clinicals. The DO's also take a class in osteopathic manipulations that the MD's don't take.

The DO's do get a lower passing score in the courses than the MD students. DO's pass with 70% and MD's have to get a 75% in the classes that both are in.

It is more difficult to get into the MD school. The MD school always matched "more impressively" than the DO school.

One other observation...the DO students always wore their scrubs around campus a lot and the MD's didn't. :huh: I am told it was because of their class in manipulations that they had to wear them.

What is a DO? Is it an osteopath? What sort of role do they play in a hospital? I go to an osteopath sometimes for a sore back, but all they do here is massage/manipulation/soft tissue work and that sort of thing. (Like a physiotherapist, but gentler... )

I think things are run very differently here, so this is tricky to grasp. An osteopath in Australia is considered a bit alternative - maybe a step more mainstream than a homeopath - and you wouldn't be finding them in hospitals. The standard of education required is lower and less rigorous than medicine. Physiotherapists work in hospitals, but they aren't called doctors, unless perhaps they were to hold a phD.

Interesting differences...

I have liked a lot of the information I've gotten from Dr. Mercola's website. It's not for everyone, especially probably not for every M.D.

m

[Laker]

What is a DO? Is it an osteopath? What sort of role do they play in a hospital? I go to an osteopath sometimes for a sore back, but all they do here is massage/manipulation/soft tissue work and that sort of thing. (Like a physiotherapist, but gentler... )

I think things are run very differently here, so this is tricky to grasp. An osteopath in Australia is considered a bit alternative - maybe a step more mainstream than a homeopath - and you wouldn't be finding them in hospitals. The standard of education required is lower and less rigorous than medicine. Physiotherapists work in hospitals, but they aren't called doctors, unless perhaps they were to hold a phD.

Interesting differences...

They are basically just like MD's in the U.S. They are licensed to practice medicine in every state. They are doctors just like the M.D.'s are. They are found in every subspecialty as well. I think their difference is in philosophy, but in reality, most of them abandon the osteopathic philosophy/manipulations and just practice traditional medicine when they get out of school/residency. I had a D.O. once when I was in the ER, and he prescribed meds and didn't try anything alternative on me. :huh:

[Flynn]

What is a DO? Is it an osteopath? What sort of role do they play in a hospital? I go to an osteopath sometimes for a sore back, but all they do here is massage/manipulation/soft tissue work and that sort of thing. (Like a physiotherapist, but gentler... )

I think things are run very differently here, so this is tricky to grasp. An osteopath in Australia is considered a bit alternative - maybe a step more mainstream than a homeopath - and you wouldn't be finding them in hospitals. The standard of education required is lower and less rigorous than medicine. Physiotherapists work in hospitals, but they aren't called doctors, unless perhaps they were to hold a phD.

Interesting differences...

They are basically just like MD's in the U.S. They are licensed to practice medicine in every state. They are doctors just like the M.D.'s are. They are found in every subspecialty as well. I think their difference is in philosophy, but in reality, most of them abandon the osteopathic philosophy/manipulations and just practice traditional medicine when they get out of school/residency. I had a D.O. once when I was in the ER, and he prescribed meds and didn't try anything alternative on me. :huh:

The DO's I have encountered would fit the above descrpition.

DO's have to do the exact same training (post school) an MD would.

[peggyfromwastate]

Are DOs allowed to take surgical residencies?

I know that the ARMY prefered DOs over MDs for one specialty: physical medicine. Other than that, they prefered MDs

We have a new DO school coming in my hometown! Everyone is so excited!

Anyway, the way I look at DOs is that they are OK- but I haven't really had a DO that I liked. It is easier to get into DO school, and the rigor of the classes aren't equal to those in MD school. But, the US needs more doctors, and since there is a cap on the number of MDs that can be awarded each year, and there is a cap on the number of medical schools, it's been easier to meet the need for more physicians, esp primary care, through DO schools. They are cropping up all over the place, and if they'd put one in my hometown, I can't see why they couldn't put one anywhere. Seriously.

all I know is DO's have to take the same boards as MD's and don't hold a limited license or anything.

[mommax3]

DH had more than one DO in his residency program (active duty Air Force) Two were very good and one ended up not finishing the program. There are DO ob/gyn residencies, too. DH thinks that in the civilian world, it would be difficult for a DO to match into a non-osteopathic ob/gyn residency. There are no DO ob/gyns that practice at the hopsital where DH works.

Sally

[Laker]

DO's can match in allopathic residencies. There have been DO's that match into very competitive MD fields, such as Derm and Rad Onc. It is tough, but it happens. Obviously the primary care fields are where most of the DO's get into the allopathic residencies.

I think DO's probably compare with non-US MD grads when they try to get into spots here in the US.

My dinner club used to consist of the following:
ortho surgery res. and his wife
my DH (ortho surgery res.) and me
anethesiology res. and her husband
another couple who was non-medical
cardiothorasic something and his wife who was a family practice doc. (a D.O. but we didn't know that)

At one of our dinner clubs I asked what a DO was b/c my friend went to one. The other ortho surgery res. (not my DH) said, "A fake doctor." Talk about foot in mouth! The family doctor piped up, "I'm a DO." UGH! All I wanted to know was what a DO was! :huh:

There have been DO's that match into very competitive MD fields, such as Derm and Rad Onc.

I think this is a rare occurance that someone matches, for derm anyway.

I don't notice too many DOs here or where we used to live but I think part of that is there is only an MD school here and in Colorado? I wonder if the prevalence of DOs varies by geography. A friend from college went to DO school and her experience seemed similar to DH with the exception that she had to move for MS3 and MS4.

DO's can definitely match into anything and can succeed at it, but there is no questioning it is a tougher road. My DW's program accepted its first DO ever last year and are quite happy with her and its No. 1 recruit for this year also was a DO, but she ultimately chose another program. We live real close to a DO school and have/had several neighbors that go/went there. As far as the intensity of the learning, which I have just seen from a far, it seems to be similar. Although, their fourth year seemed even more lax than what my wife went through getting her MD.

There were two students, including our former next door neighbors, that just started their residencies this year and both have moved away. They were both more ambitious -- surgery -- and both found residencies, although it was a challenge. One ended up having to scramble and just got a preliminary year at that. The other went to a DO program, which by the time they left sounded like it might be going under. He was very stressed.

Obviously it is easier to get through as an MD, but that doesn't mean it's impossible to go the other route or that they are any less qualified. Our neighbor actually had gotten into an MD program but opted for his DO school. So it might just come down to fit as well.

[PrincessFiona]

At one of our dinner clubs I asked what a DO was b/c my friend went to one. The other ortho surgery res. (not my DH) said, "A fake doctor." Talk about foot in mouth! The family doctor piped up, "I'm a DO." UGH! All I wanted to know was what a DO was! :huh:

We had a pediatrician who was a DO and she was fabulous. I saw a DO when we were in Penn. and he was one of the best docs I've ever seen...

There are good MDs and bad MDs, good DOs and bad DOs and good FMGs and bad FMGs ......


kris