Need to vent - resident keeps calling in sick

[medpedspouse]

That is my worst fear. And that is why when we have kids, I know the right decision for me will likely be to step back and raise them. Every single day I struggle with this, as I know a lot of you do. I just ask WHY? Why does he get to follow his path to a fulfilling career AND be a father while I can't do both? I get so mad and frustrated but ultimately, I know that I'm the one who has to sacrifice or no one will. And a lot of it's my fault that when I define as a "fulfilling career for me personally" is mutually exclusive to having a spouse in a demanding job but it seems so unfair that he gets to do it all and I can't!

I have wondered about this too. Especially after reading the "How much do you like your job" thread. It took 2 to make said child, why are the moms leaving their careers and not the dads? I know we have some great male medical spouses here that take on the majority of the childcaring/rasing but they are in the minority.

[MrsK]

Ugh! The day care. We looked at one day care facility here that has a policy of calling child protective services if you are "habitually late" in picking up your child. They close at 6PM. I generally work from 8 to 6 and I haven't been able to be anywhere by 6PM in the last 12 years. When I asked about after care, flexible hours, part-time day care, and explained DrK's unpredictable hours and my demanding schedule, I was made to feel as though my priorities were inappropriate. (The day care at the hospital accomidates all of the above scenarios and then some so it seemed to me that this was a misunderstanding of the medical family lifestyle.)

Yes, I understand that our lives are changing now that there is a BabyK. But, I'm also the primary breadwinner and quitting my work is just not an option. My priority is to keep my family sheltered and fed. Meanwhile, MIL has been insisting that we employ full-time domestic help or a live-in nanny. Yeah, riiight.

It's very easy for other people to make judgments and demands about how we manage our time, choose our careers, and raise our children. But you know what they say about walking a mile in another's shoes. . .

[Flynn]

I've been amazed that so many parents leave there sick kids at school when they are called to pick them up. I always feel so bad for the kids when I'm the volunteer in there. I suppose they can't leave work -- but it is sad for the kiddos.

I agree. Kids notice this. They notice who gets picked up in their class and who does not. I was a high school teacher for about 6 years before I had kids. Teenagers are very aware of their parents' choices. Many of my students told me in no uncertain terms that both of their parents didn't need to work but they liked it more than parenting. They told me all the "stuff' their parents were excited to buy. The students who spoke to me would have prefered weekend lunches and special dinners with their parents. Instead they had new cars, phones and an unlimited ability to buy coffee, clothes and shoes.

I feel sorry for the parents who genuinely NEED two incomes. My heart goes out to the parents who are working hard to put food on the table and provide for their family.

This includes spouses of residents who are trying to pick up the considerable slack a resident in training lifestyle provides. The non doc spouse is totally at the mercy of his/her spouses career choice. There is no middle ground here.

With regard to the reason this thread was started -- the situation is one doc and one resident. Honestly I don't have a lot of sympathy here quite frankly.

Throw stones if you must but there should be no reason that the residents in the mom's program should have to pick up the slack for her. None.

[SuzySunshine]

We all know that everyone's situations are different but the thing that got me about the original issue v-girl raised was that this resident was not expecting other residents to cover her when she has a sick child yet wasn't willing to put in a little extra time or pay back equally that coverage. THAT is the key here, not that we have members with 2 working parents that make it work, not that her husband is a doc and she's only a resident.

I'm guessing if she was willing to make the coverage equal and cover for other people when necessary there would be a lot less animosity.

Do other cities not have emergency child care services? In both of the big (?) cities that we've lived in since I've paid attention to these things there were emergency child care services. Services that cover you when your regular provider is on vacation and services that take care of sick kids. You have to be proactive and sign up for one before hand so that when you need it its ready but they do exist, you may just have to look for them.

We all know that everyone's situations are different but the thing that got me about the original issue v-girl raised was that this resident was not expecting other residents to cover her when she has a sick child yet wasn't willing to put in a little extra time or pay back equally that coverage. THAT is the key here, not that we have members with 2 working parents that make it work, not that her husband is a doc and she's only a resident.

I'm guessing if she was willing to make the coverage equal and cover for other people when necessary there would be a lot less animosity.

I agree. While I'm conflicted about the appropriateness of a resident calling in sick to care for a sick child, this particular resident doesn't seem to be looking for flexibility.

[Vanquisher]

I keep reading this thread and thinking, "yeah that," or "no, what she said," or "wait, that is a good point too."

Multi-faceted issue.

These are the facts for me, as I know them.

DH cannot call in sick, and has never called in sick. One of the residents in his program rounded on patients in a hospital gown with his IV pole because he had been admitted to the hospital. Several have given themselves IV's with hydration. Paternity leave? One resident took two days. It was frowned upon.

I don't think this is right. However, my dh has also had to cover for other residents, and it BLOWS.

Nothing in residency is fair. It is a rule that your spouse and your family is always the one getting screwed the worst. Trust me. You are. Everyone else will have better schedules, less call, and fewer weekends and holidays than your spouse.

I wanted to be a doctor too, once upon a time. It was not an option for us because we also wanted children. We also wanted those children to have at least one PRESENT parent.

We owe more money than the national deficit. I could not realistically work while dh was in school and especially not when he was a resident AND take care of kids and be 2000 miles from a support system. Furthermore, any meager income I made would have been spent on child care.

Here comes my highly personal opinion. I don't mean to hurt anyone's feelings, but it is how I feel.

It is hard for me to believe that anyone in a resident household HAS to work for financial reasons. I have lived on $1000 dollars a month with a baby in a medium cost of living city. It can be done. People do it. People do it with much, much less than what residents make.

If you think about it, you don't HAVE to have two cars. You don't HAVE to have cell phones with unlimited texting. You don't HAVE to have a mortgage. You don't HAVE to have cable television. You don't have to have a Bugaboo stroller. You HAVE to have food and shelter.

It's a matter of how you're willing to live. Are you willing to forgo retirement savings and go into debt, if necessary?

I know that I am not the only SAHM on this board. I know there are others, and I know there are others who have done it with less debt than I managed to. I know there are some that worked. That's FINE with me, but don't expect my husband to pick up the slack because other resident's want to take time off for sick kids. It is just not acceptable in the current structure.

As a woman, it is really difficult. I just think it is utterly impossible to have your career cake and mommy cake too. I just don't think you can have it all. I don't think you can give both 100%. Something fails along the line.

Two doctor households have one choice only, IMO. They have to have live-in child care. You can't just tell your patient who needs their hip fracture repaired that you're sick and you'll do it when you're feeling better. Unfortunately, there just isn't room for it in medicine. It is harsh, and brutal, and completely unfair, but it is the truth nonetheless.

It almost makes me glad, and how is this for completely bashing my feminist leaning liberal side, that orthopaedics is 95% men. Too bad it's also 95% assholes, but the assholes can come from both sides of the chromosome pool. I am beyond glad that dh never had to cover for someone on maternity leave.

I think there are good points on both sides of the equation. There is no right answer here in its entirety. As for the original poster's situation. It's completely unacceptable in my book, and I'm with Flynn on this one.

[MrsK]

It is hard for me to believe that anyone in a resident household HAS to work for financial reasons. I have lived on $1000 dollars a month with a baby in a medium cost of living city. It can be done. People do it. People do it with much, much less than what residents make.

If you think about it, you don't HAVE to have two cars. You don't HAVE to have cell phones with unlimited texting. You don't HAVE to have a mortgage. You don't HAVE to have cable television. You don't have to have a Bugaboo stroller. You HAVE to have food and shelter.

Um, we have ONE car payment, we do not text, the mortgage is less than rent, we don't have cable tv, and we don't have a bugaboo stroller. We do have educational debt for both of our degrees (yes, I'm still paying student loans), one mortgage which is less than rent and pertains to a leased property that cannot be sold in this economy, one car loan, medical care bills, basic cell phone coverage, basic utility bills. My brother who is a doc is in the same situation. I'm the first one to say that we are fortunate and that we can do without many luxuries that people think we *have* to have. But the only reason that we have what we do have is because I work like a dog to provide it for us. Life is a lot less complicated if you push a mop for a living. Having a profession comes with a lot of debt and responsibility. It is not fair to look at someone else's life and assume that they have it easy because of a job title or degree. Many of us know the assumptions that come along with being "the dawkter's wife" and we likely agree that it's not a luxurious life.

That said, I do see Cheri's point. If the resident calls in sick, she should expect to make up time elsewhere and should provide relief when her collegues need it. All professionals should do that.

[peggyfromwastate]

As a woman, it is really difficult. I just think it is utterly impossible to have your career cake and mommy cake too. I just don't think you can have it all. I don't think you can give both 100%. Something fails along the line.

Two doctor households have one choice only, IMO. They have to have live-in child care. You can't just tell your patient who needs their hip fracture repaired that you're sick and you'll do it when you're feeling better. Unfortunately, there just isn't room for it in medicine. It is harsh, and brutal, and completely unfair, but it is the truth nonetheless.


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You said it perfectly... That's exactly what I was trying to say... You just CAN'T have it all...

[peggyfromwastate]

sLife is a lot less complicated if you push a mop for a living. Having a profession comes with a lot of debt and responsibility. It is not fair to look at someone else's life and assume that they have it easy because of a job title or degree. Many of us know the assumptions that come along with being "the dawkter's wife" and we likely agree that it's not a luxurious life.

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a contradiction perhaps? I know several people who *push mops for a living* and their lives are not simple... Especially when they may get into credit card debt or have to worry extra about planning for retirement, etc.

[PrincessFiona]

Re: Need to vent - resident keeps calling in sick

So out of curiosity, what will you teach your own daughters. We can admit that many of us sahm's have a general bias against hiring nannies. If your daughter is good enough to get into med school but has a dh with a career (and many men regardless of their profession won't embrace childcare and domestic duties) what will you say? What do you want for her? What do youvteach her today?

Just curious.

Btw, do these hard and fast rules apply to the male in the doc/doc relationship or are we going to argue that even though he is equal part parent, the mom should be the one to take time off?

Do we applaud the docs rehydrating themselves via IV fluids and then walking in to do surgery as heroic and dedicated or just plain stupid?

Are we ok with trying to get our OB to induce us so that our dh can get time off on the day we deliver?


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[peggyfromwastate]

I will teach my daughers that they can't have it all. That if they become a Dr, which I'm pretty sure they won't want growing up kids of a doctor, but if they choose that path, they should think long and hard about having kids while in training. After training, I think in some specialties you can certainly make it work. Even then, I would tell them that in a demanding field like medicine, it may be unreasonable for them to be the *point parent*-- the one who is called when the kids get sick, the one who helps with the day to day stuff...

I just don't think it's unreasonable that parents who are in a Dr-Dr relationship, especially while in training, should have a solid back-up plan for childcare emergencies--- if there is no sick day care option, they should have a nanny service.

I have a friend (non-medical world) whose husband is the SAHD. She is wired to work, he's wired to go hiking all the time. They thrive.

I can see the problem with sick Dr's running around the hospital. But I can not see how in our current system we can have Dr's taking sick days when their children are sick... When the Dr is truly sick, he needs to not be in direct patient care. And there should be a system to have *payback* with whomever covers the sick doctor.

I just don't think it's unreasonable that parents who are in a Dr-Dr relationship, especially while in training, should have a solid back-up plan for childcare emergencies--- if there is no sick day care option, they should have a nanny service.

I just don't see why it's anti-woman to say that the female resident should not dump on her coworkers so that she can take care of her sick kids...

[Vanquisher]

I agree Peggy. 100%!

[SuzySunshine]

I agree Peggy. 100%!

Me too!

I thought about staying in the work force after I had A and ultimately I decided I didn't love my job enough to give up that time with my kids. But we were also married for 5 years before we had kids for the express purpose of saving money so that I could stay home if I chose to do that. We could have a smaller house, older cars, etc and live on less but we've set ourselves financially so that we can have a few nicer things. Again its the choices you make.

If this woman resident was a single-father MALE doctor, the same could be said.
Basically I would be sorry about his situation, but you're a doctor, everyone knows how the profession works going into it - and you shouldn't be so ignorant to think that you can take a day off because your child is sick, expect someone to cover for you, and then NOT feel obligated to make it up to the doctor who covered.

[Sheherezade]

The funny thing is if the resident in question was a single father with custody, we'd probably all be more sympathetic. Particularly if he had some sob story about his lousy ex dumping the kids OR if he was widowed - most people think that a father rising to the duty of childcare is NOBLE. For women, it is expected. Very different cultural standards.

I think the cultural roles of wife/husband are deeply ingrained. It will be some time before they change. I heard an author this year that wrote a book about the history of marriage. An interesting comment from the interview: The "equal" marriage is a very new experiment that has happened in the last 100 years. Marriage has been around for 1000s of years and has always has a very traditional division of labor across "wife" and "husband". Will the changes that we've seen in these generations stick? Or revert? We don't know yet.

Also heard Elizabeth Gilbert on the radio the other day. Her new book is also about marriage. She commented that in modern marriage, no one wants to be the "wife". The "wife" traditionally sacrifices for the family and does the invisible work. It is a sucky job. She said it will be interesting to see how the whole thing shakes out over the next few generations.

I have definitely told my daughter AND son that you need to structure your career with the idea of childcare in your mind. If you intend to care for your children, choose your work accordingly for that phase of life. If you intend to have grandma do it, live nearby. If you intend to pay for childcare, plan that too. I never thought about ANY of that. My career planning was based on MY skills and MY interests. While I was extremely happy and successful in that work, it was absolutely incompatible with child rearing. Rookie mistake. Hope my kids avoid that one.

I also hope to work towards making more "on-ramps" for women to re-enter careers after breaks to raise children. It is ridiculous you can't do that more easily given the number of women and mothers in this society and our ever-growing life span. Maybe that option will improve the lives of parents in the next generation who don't feel that an exit for 10 years will destroy their careers.