Your insight please?

[migirl]

I've also been following but staying out of this thread, but wanted to let Abigail know that she's definitely not alone. I'm one of "those" where the training years were not unbearably brutal or malignant, despite DH having trained in a 6-year surgical subspecialty. Of course it helped that DH did residency at a great program so his hours weren't horrible, we were close to family and friends, and we did not struggle financially. I feel like those who are in the trenches don't want to hear how great we have/had it, so I don't say too much about it either.

If anyone's interested in my thoughts about the OP ... We're just now 3.5 weeks into attendinghood , and I'd say that we've emerged relatively unscathed. So, yes, I'd have to say that the journey was worth it for us. The training process was not hell for us, so it's easy for me to say that though. DH will be the first to tell you that this was never about the money, he likes to say that there are definitely easier ways to get rich in life. He's fulfilled with a career that he enjoys that will also afford us a comfortable lifestyle, and I'm perfectly happy staying home and raising our kids. I harbor zero resentment toward DH for following his dream, probably because I didn't need to sacrifice much in order for him to attain it.

he likes to say that there are definitely easier ways to get rich in life.

amen.

Not to mention, the lavish lifestyle mentioned in the blog is just.not.realistic. I didn't read it as "did you do THIS or THIS or THIS", or "these are my dreams - do they come true?" it was more "when there is money to be used for toilet paper and you do all of these wonderful things because you are so incredibly rich". Perhaps people will still reach that kind of wealth ... 15 or 20 years OUT of training ... if they had no debt when they came out of training ... I don't know. But it's not realistic and it did just perpetuate stereotypes that I'm quite over dealing with anyway.

[peggyfromwastate]

Our residency is not malignant. DH does have away rotations that are long and painful (in one right now which helps color my world), but when he's here he's usually able to be around for about half of the weekend activities. He makes it home for dinner/bed/bath about half the time too, on a regular basis. My problem is that when he is home, he's constantly worried about something else. That's just the nature of the beast. When you are in medicine, there is no *leaving it at the door*. You are constantly thinking about the next big exam (inservice, boards, what not), the next presentation (tumor boards, conferences, grand rounds), the next step in your career (fellowship, attendinghood, setting up a practice, moonlighting.). Your time is not your own.

This wears down on the family. It wears down on me. The conversation has to be about his career, helping him hash it out. I can't move forward with anything until we know where he'll be. I hesitate to get too involved in our community, knowing I'll be uprooted again in a couple of years.

He doesn't have time to really know the ins and outs of the kids' lives. This is where the resentment really kicks it up a few thousand notches for me. He obviously doesn't need to know every mundane detail... But some details would be good. Kate has been talking about the same group of friends her whole middle school experience. Some new friends come and go, of course, but the ones who have been her buddies since day 1, DH still asks -- who's that? Or... Have I ever seen her? (Me, Yes dear, she went with us to Hersheypark 3 weeks ago...)... Kate, rolls her eyes, brushes it aside, but it hurts. It hurts as a child when your dad is so distracted by work bull**** that he doesn't have time to even focus when you're talking to him. And that's what burns me up. The neverending list of work crap that he has to worry about. It invades every little aspect of our lives, and I'm not kidding myself by thinking that attendinghood will change that. He'll still be thinking about all the little things he needs to do, the exams, the research, the conferences, the deployments.

So, it is what it is, I guess. But even if DH was proven to be the most awesome ENT in the whole world, I would have to think that the 2nd most awesome ENT in the whole world would be able to pretty much cover everything DH does in his job. I don't think any professional person is irreplaceable in their professional capacity. But I hate to see my kids get hurt by this world of medicine. And yes, it was of course my choice to marry him. I still feel bitter at times, but that's not to say I'm bitter all the time. I, like Kris, have seen families who work dual incomes in different types of jobs than medicine. They are able to answer the phone in the middle of the day if there is an emergency. They know the names of their kids' teachers at schools (both parents do- not just the one who signs the homework folders and goes to the conferences). They plan vacations together, they attack behavior issues of their children together, they cultivate friendships as a couple...

Most days I just plow ahead. Life goes on, if DH can be there with us, awesome, if not, he can look it up on our family calendar app which pretty much lays out where we are at all times. That way he can delude himself into thinking he's involved.

My DH is not a bad guy. He wants to be involved, and he tries, but no one can have it all. No one. You can't work 80 hours a week in your job, work 20 hours a week at home for your job, and be engaged with your family also. You just can't do it...

Part of this perspective I have is because I had my childhood where medicine was #1, and we all knew it, even tho my dad thought he was following God's call by being a Dr. And part of this is because we have had some pretty scary experiences with 1 teenager already. And we still have 4 more kids who haven't hit teen years yet. It is very hard to have a relationship with a teen, because you have to be available. You can't compress your time into a 15 minute high-energy session... You have to be there, engaged, paying attention. You have to be ready to listen when they are ready to talk. Usually this happens at an inconvenient time. But there it is. And I just doubt that medicine, even in attendinghood, will allow for the type of relationship my teens will need with their dad. And that makes me sad and fills me with regret if I allow myself to think of it.

I'm glad if people have more peace with this than I do. I really am. I may get there someday myself. In 10 years I may be in the *Hell Yeah it was worth it* camp. But... right now, when I see my kids hurting, I just can not go there.

I harbor zero resentment toward DH for following his dream

I feel the same way. Residency was extremely rough on both of us, and I did feel that our marriage was strained during it, and I wasn't the happiest camper during residency. I did resent his hours back then. But I wouldn't say there was really any sacrifice involved, except for rarely seeing him during those four years. We didn't sacrifice in terms of geographical location, my career choices, or lifestyle really, since our two paychecks together were enough to make ends comfortably meet. Now that we're five years out in attendinghood, things are really great. While DH's hours are still rough, I no longer have issues with his hours, and there is no resentment whatsoever. I made a conscious decision years ago to accept his hours for what they are, and that really helped. His hours are not going to change (in fact I think they will get worse), and I learned long ago that my feeling resentful about them is just wasted energy. I do still get irritated when a whole weekend is taken up by in-house call, but it's just irritation and no resentment whatsoever. I tell myself that I'm glad I have a husband who isn't in a career where he has to take business trips all the time--in-house call is nothing compared to how I would feel about business trips!

Overall I feel really good about his work/life balance. DH being in medicine has also allowed me to pursue my goals and dreams, and our goals and dreams together. I really appreciate that DH has always been willing to be flexible to accommodate my career goals, such as when I was applying to grad schools and I applied widely out of state. And that was a direct result of his job--he knew he could probably get a good job that he would be happy with anywhere, which allowed me to find the grad school which was the best fit. If he was in another career he might not have been willing to be as flexible.

Overall, I have only positive feelings toward medicine now. I no longer feel that I come in second place after medicine, though I did feel that way in residency. Maybe my outlook will change when we have children, and he isn't around much and I am single parenting with no family in the area to help, but I accept now that that is likely going to be the case, and so I don't feel resentment.

[PrincessFiona]

Your insight please?

Peggy, I want to run over and hug you. It does get better after training and you and Mac will have some control of that! I know that these years and the time right now with the kids can't be relived. He will be able to do better by all of you though soon.

I have received some mixed messages about this thread ...some positive and some negative. Personally, I think this has been a powerful discussion in many ways. Yes, we have individual differences in how we see things and we have bickered about them from time-to-time, but we have also really hit on some important feelings about training and how we approach our lives. I don't 'get' that there is anything so offensive about this thread that people should stop being a member, etc. I suppose we should have moved it to the debate forum after page 2.

I think the discussions branched off in ways that allowed people to discuss thing from many different perspectives. As usual, we don't agree on everything ... But it is pretty neat that we can have discussions, disagree, and then move on together to the next thread.

Kris

[diggitydot]

I don't 'get' that there is anything so offensive about this thread that people should stop being a member, etc.

I don't think this thread is offensive, per se. The only thing that will make me less likely to hang out here is that my words have been twisted in ways that would make a Cirque du Soleil acrobat jealous. That's what makes me consider suiciding my account -- not differing opinions. I like and can respect different opinions, even those that I don't completely understand. What I don't like someone else projecting their bullshit onto my writing in an effort to justify their own feelings or opinions.

With that, I think I'm taking an iMSN break for a while. I apparently need a time-out.

[Pollyanna]

Sorry I'm late here. I would like to direct everyone to the following thread:

http://www.medicalspouse.com/forums/...it-real/page50

We need a little healing via TomKat.

ETA: For the newbies. This is my job, I redirect via TomKat, just go with it.

[PrincessFiona]

Your insight please?

I just lost my response. I'll keep it short. This is an Internet forum full of posters that we don't really know. I think taking breaks is healthy when we find ourselves upset over things. I'm just surprised diggitydot because you were firm about the idea that putting something out publicly opens one up for comments and you seemed to champion the tough love approach. I have little doubt that my response to that was offensive, but it was my opinion which can be taken or left for what it's worth. Usually people just ignore it.

I have no doubt that the original blogger would feel like you and many of us taking part in the thread ... That their words were twisted or they were misunderstood. Still I think it was a great discussion.

I think deleting your account over it would be overkill. Take a break, do something fun, and then come back with pics to make us jealous.

Kris

[rainbabies]

OMG, Tara!! Where did u find that thread!!!???!!
*mwah* I love you!

[GrayMatterWife]

Geez. Look...this really was my fault. I was the one that turned this into something perceived as mean. I used a sharp, personal tone when picking apart what I didn't like about the blog. It set a bad precedent for the rest of the thread (in the otherwise innocent "Grand Rounds" forum) and offended some folks. It all kind of spiraled down from there.

Please, no one leave over this. It is SO not worth it. Let's face it: how we handle The Life is a very intimate and personal thing for each of us. But that which we don't share in common is so much less than that which we do. And, selfishly, I really don't want to feel responsible for that unintended consequence.

[diggitydot]

I have no problem with someone disagreeing or not liking my opinon. I put it out there and can take the heat of disagreement. I take issue with my writing being twisted into something it never was in the first place.

Is it enough to make me suicide my account? Maybe, maybe not. But it's certainly enough of an eye opener that I've lost quite a bit or respect for some people that I previously held in high esteem.

[rainbabies]

Sigh. Really? If that's what you need to do, then do it. *shrug*
We all get things twisted and screwed up. Look how I took kris's words. She explained, I get it. And apologized.

Okay, okay ... Wading in wearing my " moderator" panties ...

Opinions have been expressed. People have been misunderstood / understood perfectly / agreed with / disagreed with / and the original topic has been discussed to death. Let's call this one a dead horse and move on to something innocuous, like healthcare reform, taxes, or Bristol & Levi.

[scrub-jay]

Okay, okay ... Wading in wearing my " moderator" panties ...

I'm trying to picture "moderator panties" ...

[Pollyanna]

I'm trying to picture "moderator panties" ...

And I redirected to TomKat people, is nothing sacred anymore?!?!