Babywise

[Pollyanna]

Sorry, I am childless and found it interesting.

***shuffles off into childless darkness***

No shuffling off allowed! You don't need to have children to have an opinion or point out a study. Thanks for that btw because I hadn't heard that. I'm sure I've screwed up parenting in a variety of ways but at least the CIO is not responsible.

[ladymoreta]

I was really excited to hear they'd finally done a long-term study, too. Then when I heard the details, I was disappointed. CIO is one of those things that needs to be studied. It is very effective for lots of kids, so a definitive study showing it is or isn't safe would be so helpful. Then it could enter the realm of parenting style/preference, but without the worry of whether or not it's harmful.

[Pollyanna]

Parenting carries so much guilt with it the last thing parents need is "experts" adding to that guilt. There may be children that have failure to thrive due to the Ezzos recommendations but I know more than one parent who's newborn had to be admitted for dehydration because they were made to feel like failures of they couldn't nurse so they didn't want to use formula. My point is that there is extreme on both ends of the spectrum. Follow your gut is typically the best parenting plan

[niener]

My point is that there is extreme on both ends of the spectrum. Follow your gut is typically the best parenting plan

Totally. *another childless person slipping in here*

To say Babywise is abuse or AP is overly submissive is assuming every kid/parent combo has the same needs. If you're an AP kind of person and try to abide by the Babywise rules, yeah you'll probably feel like you're abusing your child. If you're more of a Babywise person and try to use AP techniques, you'll probably feel like you are the one being abused. While it's all politically correct to say it's 100% about the kid, if you're miserable and depressed because the "right" method doesn't fit you, you're not doing your kid any favors.

My aunt used Babywise with her two boys. She's a very structured, organized individual in general. Her boys are now teenagers and they're happy, healthy, well-adjusted and have great relationships with both their parents, despite being teenagers. One of my best friends from high school used AP techniques with her little girl. She's an emotional, touchy-feely person in general. Her daughter is also happy, healthy and well-adjusted. If these women had never heard of Babywise or AP, they still would have raised their children in much the same way -- those books/techniques simply gave a name and a few extra details to something they were going to do anyway.

[SoonerTexan]

While I get what you are saying and agree for the most part, I disagree in the specific case of Babywise. There are specific things in Babywise I have a hard time believing any parent would naturally do on their own. For example, leaving a 2 week old to cry or not rocking a baby to sleep because it is a "sleep prop." Mothers have been rocking their babies to sleep for ages! I think that is why so many people "modify" Babywise, even though they swear by it.

I should also say, I don't think CIO is the end of the world, it's just the age that bothers me. I have no problem with letting a temper tantruming toddler cry in their crib, etc. It is the Under 6 months that bothers me because at that age they aren't learning a lesson, they are being conditioned to not do something a baby naturally should be doing. It's the misinformation and fear mongering that bother me.

PS I am absolutely ASTOUNDED I didn't respond to this thread back in 2010 before I had N. That showed an uncharacteristic restraint on my part HAHA.

[TulipsAndSunscreen]

Sorry, I am childless and found it interesting.

***shuffles off into childless darkness***

Sorry CP. Didnt mean to imply you couldn't contribute, just to clarify the difference between Ezzo and CIO as studied.

[corn poffi]

Parenting carries so much guilt with it the last thing parents need is "experts" adding to that guilt. There may be children that have failure to thrive due to the Ezzos recommendations but I know more than one parent who's newborn had to be admitted for dehydration because they were made to feel like failures of they couldn't nurse so they didn't want to use formula. My point is that there is extreme on both ends of the spectrum. Follow your gut is typically the best parenting plan

And this is what I was trying to say!!!

Ps I have no idea who Ezzo is or anything. Just pointing out new research!

[peggyfromwastate]

I don't know anyone who followed baby wise to the letter of the law. The only time I read that book was when i was pregnant w the twins. I read the baby whisperer, baby wise, and the (then) updated version of healthy sleep habits happy baby. I also read Ferber but just didn't like it at all, so i used nothing from ferber. I also read the toddler/infant/pregnancy books by sears. Pretty much all Sears books. And I read an interesting book on the neurological brain development of infants. It was not a medical book but still pretty scientific. And illuminating.

Taking all that I incorporated bits and pieces from all of them except for the baby whisperer which I thought was annoying, and Ferber which I just didn't want to bother with. The only thing I really used from baby wise was the sleep-eat-play system which helped tremendously to get a feeding in for the twins. Those feelings took at least 45 min-- my dd never would've stuck with the feeding to get food in her if I "nursed her to sleep". She was tricky to feed at 4lbs and needed constant stimulation.

I mostly used the healthy sleep habits book though. That's my favorite and I still have it now-- the only sleep book I kept. It has info on sleep terrors and lively other things like that for older kids. It does say CIO is ok at 4 months. Again, most moms know their kids cries by this point and you can tell if you are letting them cry out their frustrations at life- and after that release they can sleep. Or if they are working themselves into a puke inducing frenzy and will dig in and cry for hours. Then yeah, CIO won't be your friend.

On amazon you'll see haters on ANY child rearing book. Rarely is the situation that simple. I have touch sensory issues I think and I couldn't handle AP. after nursing and rocking and holding babies for about 75% of my waking day... I just was ready for a little space. And that was ok, even if the babies were upset for 5 min. Even if they were in their cribs alone and upset for 5 minutes. Even if they were in there for 10--- it's ok.

Sleep training as with all issues parenting is a multi faceted issue. I just say--- there is NO one method that works like a charm. My easiest infant sleeper is now an insomniac... So... Shrug.

Re babywise specifically,
Lets please try not to use words like abusive etc bc people who have seen some benefits from babywise and have used it themselves might take that as a personal attack. I don't, but this isn't my first rodeo either...

[mommax3]

I knew people following Ezzo back when I had my oldest in 1995, and it was recommended to me. Surprise, surprise, not one of the people recommending it nursed longer than about a month. I thought it was nuts then, and I still do. To me it is all about supposed experts telling new, inexperienced parents that with a little work, they will still be in complete control of their lives and schedules after they have a baby, and that is soooo not true. Parenthood is a stretching and maturing experience precisely because we learn to let go of what we want to do and instead put our babies first. Of course that looks different depending on the age of the child, but becoming a parent is a real shift in how you look at the world and your place in it, and things never go back to "normal"....normal just shifts to accommodate your new family member, and it takes a while for that to feel comfortable! Once I accepted that and learned to go with the flow a little more than I had in my pre-parenting life, I was fairly content, even if I wasn't getting a lot of sleep.

I don't say any of the above to make anyone feel guilty. I am just so thankful I followed my gut regarding those books, because I can tend to be a rule follower and following the rules presented there would have been a disaster for my boys.

[alison]

Pollyanna needs to write a book about this and give it a really goofy name. I know I'd buy it! She could have a chapter on not rushing stages.

We did CIO when dd was around 4 months old. She's always been a great sleeper, but needed the nudge to be able to do it on her own. The first time we did CIO, she ed all over her crib and it took an hour to fall asleep. The next night was longer--1.5 hours. And the third night, she was quiet/ and or asleep within minutes. I've never heard her cry since that third day of CIO, and while now it does take 20-30 minutes of singing and talking to fall asleep, she never calls out for us, because she knows we won't ever come for stuff like extra kisses, water, snuggles, etc. anyway. Bwahahahahaha! CIO worked well for us, but I get how it works for some and not others!

[SoonerTexan]

I'd buy Pollyannas book

[niener]

Lets please try not to use words like abusive etc bc people who have seen some benefits from babywise and have used it themselves might take that as a personal attack. I don't, but this isn't my first rodeo either...

Oh yes, ITA. To clarify, I didn't intend to say that babywise, AP, or any other method is abusive, only that if you're not using the method that is right for you it may feel as though you're being abusive either to yourself or your baby.

[SoonerTexan]

I read a few chapters when I was staying at a friend's house a couple years ago, and I was appalled, too. ST, I'd love to see your notes when you are done.

An update...I never did get started on summarizing it with notes. I still want to, but the cousin who lent me the book had another baby, so I kept my mouth shut and returned it with a baby gift a few months ago

That being said, I found someone else randomly tonight who pretty much did the same thing...haha and got about as far as I did. And came to almost exactly the same conclusions. :

http://skepticalmothering.com/tag/babywise/