Babywise

[ladymoreta]

Thank you - sorry for the delayed reply. I appreciate Peggy and Lacy chiming in with your success stories. I agree it is definitely not ferberizing. I can't count the number of times the author says to watch for hunger cues and feed your baby if he's hungry.

As for burping - DS doesn't burp every time either. Usually he burps on his own while he's eating or burps as I'm sitting him up to start patting/rubbing his back. I was concerned, so I googled it, and it's not uncommon for BF babies to not burp every time.

[peggyfromwastate]

OK- I wrote another post, which Josie deleted! UGH. It's hard to stay up on issues with a baby who likes buttons and doesn't appreciate me being distracted...

Anyway, I am not sure I can be counted in the *success story* column here. I did use the Babywise idea with the twins, but thinking back, I didn't follow it very well. Mostly I used the idea (which was novel to me at the time) of having a eat-play-sleep routine. Before that, I nursed to sleep. The problem was that if you nurse to sleep, it's hard to get the burp. And then you may have reflux issues. That beins said, with a young baby, it's HARD to keep them awake after nursing. So, I'd end up waking them up and trying to keep them alert to *play*, then put them down with about 1 hr to spare before the next *scheduled* feeding. Rather than listen to them cry, I usually would feed and start the cycle, even if it was 2 hr instead of 3, for instance. But sometimes I'd let them cry for a few extra minutes just so that I could give myself a pep talk to start the whole routine again. I didn't use the Babywise scheduling at all at night. I think the premise of the book is that if you follow their schedule, you'll have your baby sleeping through the night at 12 weeks or something like that. I didn't bother with the *sleep training* at night. That was when DH was home, and he could help (a little).

For the other kids, I used the advice of the Healthy Sleep Habits book (Dr Weisbuth or something like that.) He touches on the neurological development of babies, and he says that neurologically babies are not ready to sleep through the night until sometimes 9 months of age! It all just depends. And he does recommend the CIO method, but only at a certain age (I think it's past 4 mos, but it might be 6). He encourages *soothing to sleep*, and I think he also likes the feed-play-sleep pattern more than the nursing to sleep pattern. He strongly discourages the method of waking a baby at 10 pm or so to force feed (I think this is part of Babywise?). I hated the idea of force feeding at 10 pm, too.

Anyway, clear as mud, right.

I would encourage you, given this is your first, to just follow your gut. When people ask if your baby is sleeping through the night, just say, hmmmm, someday. You have the opportunity to love on this child with all your attention- and while I know as a new mom sometimes you need some time to not be in physical contact with a baby, just give yourself permission to follow your instincts, feed when baby wants to eat, even feed just to comfort baby (SHOCK!). It's OK. You won't regret doing that ever. You aren't spoiling anyone. Later in life, if you have other kids, there will be times when you just can't soothe a baby like you want to. But now with your first baby, just let yourself follow your instincts and do what you are comfortable with.

For me, the Babywise method was too regimented to use for any of my singleton kids. And looking back, I don't think I really used it (at least not entirely) with my twins. But we all made it. The twins are OK even though they cried a lot more than the other kids! They are mostly well-adjusted!

Thank you - sorry for the delayed reply. I appreciate Peggy and Lacy chiming in with your success stories. I agree it is definitely not ferberizing. I can't count the number of times the author says to watch for hunger cues and feed your baby if he's hungry.

I have had 3 very close friends also use the babywise system to help their babies and all 3 of them are very happy with the program.

Here has been my advice to all of them.

Get your baby on an eating schedule first. Don't worry about the sleep schedule until you get the feeding schedule down. Taking on the entire schedule all at once can get frustrating. Once your baby is on a good 2 1/2-3 hour feeding schedule, start with the sleep, eat, awake cycle. This one is tough with the real young ones. I think it took Rudy a month to get this one down good. Then start working on the night time issues.

Here is what our schedule looked like when he was under 5 months.

6am- wake and feed him, put him back to bed.
9am- wake and feed him, then play with him to keep him awake for a while.
10:30am- Nap time. I'd swaddle him tight give him hugs and kisses and lay him in his crib. That's it!
12pm- wake and feed him, then play with him to keep him awake for a while.
1:30pm- nap time. Same as above
3pm- wake and feed him, then play to keep him awake
4:30- nap time
6pm- wake and feed, for my own sanity, I tried to keep him awake until 9. I was rarely successful.
8:30- bath, pjs, feed and bed time (9pm).

He basically slept from 9-9, ate every 3 hours, and napped an 1 1/2 hours of every 3 hours. When he got older (I can't remember... probably 5mts or so), the naps went to 1 hour.

During the night:
When Rudy was really small, we woke him up at 12pm (because one of us was still awake) to feed him and put him back to bed right away. We tried to make sure the house was all dark with no sounds to stimulate him. Just feed, and back to bed. He would usually sleep until 6am. If he woke up during the night, I would give him his pacifire. I've said this during older posts but I'm not good at the CIO thing. I always went to my baby when he woke up. I'd give him a cuddle and put him back down without saying a word or turning lights on, etc. I'd go lay back down in bed and watch the clock for 5 minutes. Then I'd go back to him if he was still crying. I did not start the 5, 10, 15 CIO until he was probably 6months+. I never let him CIO more than 15 minutes.

The schedule was perfect for us. It really was. My husband usually did the 12pm feeding (pumped milk) because he was working 2nd shift at the time and got home then. I did the 6am feeding because I was up for work. My husband got to sleep 1am-9am. I got to sleep from 9pm-5am. Neither of us were sleep deprived (unless baby was sick or growth spurt). It was great! We dropped the 12pm feeding at 3 months when my hubby got put back on dayshift. At first my son would wake up around 4am hungry but within a week or so, he was sleeping from 9-6. We absolutely LOVED the schedule for daycare and babysitters too. We could tell them exactly what to do at what time and know that Rudy would feel comfortable knowing that his food was coming on time. My husband says he loved it because he didn't have to pretend to have mother's instincts. He just followed the schedule and both he and Rudy were happy.

I know that the schedule thing isn't for everyone. If you're a stay at home mom and like to demand feed, I'm sure that's fine too. I work and I needed my sleep. I don't do well with sleep deprivation. I don't think that kids are "damaged" psychologically either way. My son is a happy healthy child. He's very well adjusted and very much loved. I also know demand feed babies who are just as happy and healthy.

Find what works for you and run with it. Take parts of the systems that you like and change the parts that you don't like. Its your family and your child.

Good luck! If you have any other babywise questions, let me know.

[Pollyanna]

Just curious, has anyone used Babywise on a second, third or fourth child? Seems like it would be completely unrealistic once you throw in other children and their school/activity schedules.

[peggyfromwastate]

We applied the 2 to 3-hr babywise strategy during the day with my twins when Kate was 5.5 years old. It was unrealistic, actually. The schedule became all-important. We didn't go to dinners with the extended family, we stayed home all the time, even going for a walk was something that had to be carefully planned out and scheduled. You are sort of a hostage with a newborn anyway, because you don't want to be missing all the naps, but babywise is a bit hyper with that. We didn't try any after school activities for Kate either.

Now we just let the baby miss naps. It's just too much to expect life to stand still when you have a baby. No one seems any worse for it all, either. But I'm soooo much more relaxed as a parent now. I'm still pretty uptight, tho!

I read it because I had heard several people swear by it. However, I didn't feel comfortable using most of the methods. They were just too strict for me. I gleaned some useful info from Healthy Sleep Habits and The Babywhisperer (not the dreamfeed thing though...more just playing around with the activity time to try to figure out her naps).

Whether I'm buying a steam mop or trying to get my baby to sleep, I am very much a researcher. But.... babies are not steam mops. Obviously. They are little, miraculous, exhausting beings, and their needs change from minute to minute. I usually just throw most of the book advice out the window and go with my gut, whether that means letting the babe fuss a little or picking her up. Parenting is tough and I'm positive I have made many many mistakes with both my girls, but I just have to know that the amount of love and hugs and kisses I give them compensates for everything I did (and will do) wrong.

[Pollyanna]

Does it bother anyone else that Babywise is the secular version of Ezzo's Christian curriculum, Preparation for Parenting, which uses the bible as an inappropriate justification of his parenting techniques? Now those of you that know me now my faith is very important to me but I don't care for how Ezzo uses the bible to justify his system of schedules.

[Amiens]

I agree with Rapunzel.

I have four kiddos. I was loaned a copy of the book with DD1. I put her on a regimented schedule, but E was also not a crier, and very much went with the flow.

Enter #2, ds, and I thought I could do the same thing. WRONG! He was the antithesis baby of his older sister. I had a hard time scheduling feedings, naps. As soon as I stopped trying to schedule everything, he was a happier child. Reading his cues and going off of that, life got better. He eventually fell into a natural pattern w/o any coaxing from me. The same thing with #3 and #4.

Anyway, we followed a loose schedule of eat, play sleep, and that worked. We have always been told that you cannot "spoil" a baby before 6 months.

[peggyfromwastate]

That's why I appreciate the Healthy Sleep Habits book- he talks about how there are different temperaments for babies. If you have an *easy* baby, probably you won't have many issues for sleep at all. These babies can go to sleep whenever and are generally happy-go-lucky. I never had an *easy* baby, so had I not read this book too, I would maybe have felt frustrated--- like I'm doing steps A,B,C, and baby is STILL not sleeping well? What is wrong with my baby??? But knowing that babies are all different (I know this is obvious, but to me anyway when I was a new mom I sort of didn't get that, at least not completely) it makes it much easier to follow your baby's needs more.

I have no regrets for the HOURS I have spent holding my babies and doing comfort feeds (non-nutritive!!) just to make it. I have no regrets for the *naps in cribs* we missed due to sporting events, preschool, whatever. Twins are special (Rapunzel knows-- unless you have 8 arms, there will be tears), but in general, I think you can prevent a lot of stress and crying for babies and the sleep schedules will come when the baby is ready for it.

I've come a long way on this issue, tho. I can't say that people who follow Babywise to the letter are abusive, because I would guess that most people who do use Babywise to that degree have *easy* babies and there probably is little to no stress associated with sleep training. I think most people of *difficult* babies give up on the sleep scheduling.

There are things that are good in the Babywise- as I've said I like the approach to trying to stretch out time between feedings by having activities-- and trying to play with your baby, things like that.

I think that Pollyanna's cafeteria approach is good (best) for parenting books...

I don't recall the babywise book saying not to hold your baby. i held my baby just about every minute he was awake. It talks about not holding your baby while they sleep. This is just to help them learn how to fall asleep on their own.

Lacy

I do not think we were every cruel to our son. You're very open to say such harsh things to other people.

[peggyfromwastate]

I meant holding the baby while she sleeps, and holding her while she falls asleep rather than putting them down while awake. That is part of the Babywise (and other) methods, I think. So that they can learn to fall asleep on their own. It's a good idea in theory, and nice if it works for you, but for my last baby she just couldn't do it. We tried the CIO method for MONTHS and finally I just gave up and decided she needs that extra long soothing to sleep process. Now I rock her to sleep for anywhere from 20 min to an hour for nap and bed. It's a pain sometimes, because it would be great to just snuggle her, give her a kiss, and that's that, but she won't tolerate it.

I did put my twins down in the crib awake, and they eventually learned to fall asleep on their own, but they were swaddled together and so never truly *on their own*. They always had a warm body nearby, even when they were in separate cribs.

For my other kids, I would say my first was the most naturally easy sleeper, and she actually wouldn't fall asleep being held, but if put down would cry for max of 5 minutes and fall asleep on her own.

My other singleton didn't really fall asleep on his own if put down awake either.

Sometimes with a newborn it was easier for me and less stressful to just hold the baby thru the nap. The naps were always longer this way, and if I was able to snooze a little it was just a bonus. But the Babywise system really pushes putting the baby down to sleep alone and to learn to fall asleep on their own. My point is that some babies will not tolerate it, and you will listen to crying for long periods of time.

Lacy, I think you have an *easy* baby and that is great. I know that your schedule would not have applied to my last baby, though. And all babies are so different, so that is where each mother has to depend on her own instinct in this matter. A black-and-white schedule isn't really applicable to all temperaments.

[peggyfromwastate]

I do not think we were every cruel to our son. You're very open to say such harsh things to other people.

And I don't think that Rapunzel thinks you are cruel to your son (chime in here if you want Rapunzel). I think she's saying in her opinion the METHOD of babywise is cruel. It's all in how you apply the method. Reading your description of how you use the babywise schedule I would say you aren't dogmatic with it, and you follow your instincts to go in to comfort your baby as you think is needed. And it sounds like you do this much more quickly than I do! So, don't take it personally, although I know it's hard. It sounds like your baby thrives under the schedule of the Babywise baby. And that is great! But not every baby does. And not every baby CAN be *trained* to follow that schedule. We all know some babies have colic, some have reflux, some have other issues. And some very lucky mothers have a very easy, laid back baby (that's not to say they never cry, they just tend to go with the flow a little more than others and fall into schedules easily).

IMHO, your baby would have fallen into the Babywise schedule if you'd never read the book.

[Amiens]

But not every baby does. And not every baby CAN be *trained* to follow that schedule. We all know some babies have colic, some have reflux, some have other issues. And some very lucky mothers have a very easy, laid back baby (that's not to say they never cry, they just tend to go with the flow a little more than others and fall into schedules easily).

This was us. E (#1) was such an easy baby, to the point that we had another one 19 months after. (shaking head) Man was I naive to think I would be so lucky. Our second was the exact opposite. B (#2), cried what seemed like the first 6 months of his life. He hated being rocked if he was tired, but during the rest of the time he wanted to be held. He ate every 1.5 hours during the day for the first 3 months and would go 2 hours at night, and eventually I got him to go every 2 hours during the day. He taught me a lot as a parent. I read A LOT with him-- Happy Baby Healthy Sleep, The Baby Whisperer, The No Cry Sleep Solution. I even tried charting his "patterns" to nail down a pattern with him. By 4 months he was still up every 2 hours, and at 5 months he was waking every 3 hours. At his 6 months appt., we figured out he had some acid reflux. During this time I was trying every advice and method I could find on the internet and books.

I don't think there is a one fit all solution when it comes to sleep. After having 4, I have found one thing true- you can't hold an infant too much. I wish I had held my older two more.

[peggyfromwastate]

I don't think there is a one fit all solution when it comes to sleep. After having 4, I have found one thing true- you can't hold an infant too much. I wish I had held my older two more.

I can not agree with this more.