Safe sex

[medpedspouse]

ITA with ST. N of 2 or should it be 4? here. DH and I dated for 4 yrs before having sex...the day after we got married. We were exhausted that first night.

I am in no way saying that this choice is for everyone and will stand up and fight for anyone to make their own choices about their sexuality/sex. However, I cringe at the blanket statements that what DH and I chose is somewhat the outlier or abnormal. It is MY choice too. And no, it was never about not having all the facts or thinking sex was wrong or dirty. Hell, it is because we knew so much about our bodies/sex that we made the choice to abstain until marriage.

It is a choice. Just like I will beat down anyone that attempts to shame someone that chooses to have sex before marriage, I will do the same for those that choose to wait.

[MsSassyBaskets]

It is a choice. Just like I will beat down anyone that attempts to shame someone that chooses to have sex before marriage, I will do the same for those that choose to wait.

I agree... I guess what I'm responding to is that this thread started as a discussion about safe sex education/parenting. I belive that pushing abstinence until marriage (especially for someone other than your own child) is not respectful of that choice. In order to make a responsible choice, young people need to be given all the information and resources, and encouraged to respect themselves, whether that means pursuing their sexuality safely, or waiting.

I also disagree fundamentally with the focus on marriage inherent in the whole discussion. Marriage isn't everyone's goal. And if marriage isn't assumed, the conversation about "premarital" sex is very different.

[SoonerTexan]

I'm not trying to change Heidis mind (spoiler: I won't). I'm responding the repeated implied assumption here and in society in general that teen abstinence is a fantasy or a result of shaming or strong arming.

[MsSassyBaskets]

I'm not trying to change Heidis mind (spoiler: I won't). I'm responding the repeated implied assumption here and in society in general that teen abstinence is a fantasy or a result of shaming or strong arming.

Fair enough. I hear you.

[gem]

Regardless of one's personal beliefs regarding waiting for marriage or not, I think this discussion highlights that people have very different values with respect to sex, and I think it is especially important to help teens understand that in addition to figuring out their own feelings on the subject, it's of paramount importance to understand and respect their romantic partner's values--- before getting to the point of selecting condoms.

[SoonerTexan]

^ Amen

[WolfpackWife]

Regardless of one's personal beliefs regarding waiting for marriage or not, I think this discussion highlights that people have very different values with respect to sex, and I think it is especially important to help teens understand that in addition to figuring out their own feelings on the subject, it's of paramount importance to understand and respect their romantic partner's values--- before getting to the point of selecting condoms.

Totally agree. The jaded former-catholic in me finds it hard to wrap my brain around a realistic expectation of/hope for abstinence without religious teaching or association but...again I'm jaded and not a parent so I haven't had to think much about it. Respect for yourself and your potential partners and detailed education/information is about the best everyone can possibly do.

[peggyfromwastate]

I have nothing positive to remember in previous sexual relationships. I have regret, though, and not because I got pregnant (that was the best thing that came out of those years) but because those guys weren't worth it, and it just led to a lot of confusion and sadness for me.

Dh and I didn't wait, either. And I guess in some ways I wished we had, but it definitely isn't something I look back on with regret like with the other experiences.

Just my two cents.

I respect the hell out of those who were abstinent, that takes a lot of conviction and self control. I also respect Heidi for her openness with her kids.

And I agree--- shame shouldn't be the motivating factor. All my bad experiences with my family post-pregnancy, and there were many, were due to shaming and it really hurt me. All my siblings had sex before marriage yet it was ok for them to shame me. And my parents knew they all were having sex and yet they shamed me. It was a hard thing to work through for sure, and probably this is why I wanted dh to go Military bc I knew I wouldn't end up living in hometown, where my siblings all live. It's ok to see them every now and then, but these wounds won't heal in this lifetime.

As far as the pregnancy, my only regret there is that I let family try to shame me into a choice I didn't want. I wanted to keep my baby, they wanted me to give her up. They arranged with an agency, shuttled me to meetings, chose birth parents. Terrible, I feel awful for putting birth parents through that. I knew I couldn't give her up. I knew it. I told them before delivery, they told me I'd change my mind, and I was being selfish. I told them that maybe I was being selfish. Ultimately I called the agency. I told them I would not sign. And my family had to choose literally to disown me or to deal. They dealt with it... Sort of.

So my regret is not damage done to the relationship with my parents and siblings. No, it's the feeling of rejection that my daughter had to deal with by knowing that her birth father wasn't interested. Luckily dh has always loved kate like his own. Truly, he's amazing.

Heidi I'm so sorry for that emotional vomit all over your post!!!!!

Carry on...

[medpedspouse]

I'm responding the repeated implied assumption here and in society in general that teen abstinence is a fantasy or a result of shaming or strong arming.

This. Waiting is also a choice...a pretty good safe bet that there will not be pregnancy too - if that is what you want.

Our choice was easy. However, it would have been nice to not feel like we were some sort of religious oddballs or zealots. I am amazed at the assumptions made if such is your choice....AND we were living in what you would consider the bible belt buckle.

[Phoebe]

I am happy that there is a discussion in this thread because it is making me think about how I want to frame intimacy with my kids. I haven't sat thought about it before because my oldest is 13. However a friend of a friend of my daughter had a baby at 13 years old. This has spurred some conversations with my older kids. I know it will be ongoing but I had never really thought about how I want to present sexual relationships to them before. I find myself telling my girls the same thing my mother told me which isn't necessarily healthy. my mother got pregnant at age 18 and her sister was pregnant at 16 because their mom never had discussions with them. my mother was telling me I needed to wait until marriage to have sex even when I was 20 and meanwhile giving my brother condoms at age 15. It has taken me a long time to even feel comfortable with sex because of the way I was taught about it as a teenager.


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[Curegirl]

To quote Cher Horowitz: It's a personal choice every woman has got to make for herself.

I grew up with a Catholic mom and an Atheist dad who were very direct in their sex talks. We never had cutesy names for anatomy growing up. They said it's my choice what I do with my body but whatever I choose, make sure we respect and care for each other and whether it's before marriage or not doesn't make it any more or less special. What makes it special is knowing you have a partner who you can trust and vice versa. I ended up waiting a long time...like closer to menopausal age long time because I wanted to be emotionally ready. I was also very lucky in that none of my boyfriends ever pressured me about sex. Reading this thread, it looks like some of us regret things and some of us don't. Either way, we've all learned our own lessons.

Regardless of what anyone says, you know your kids best Heidi. And it's clear you all love and respect each other. So again, kudos to your family for being able to have such frank discussions about what's typically a difficult subject.

[Thirteen]

Peggy, you are a very brave, very loving person. I am so sorry you had to go through that experience without the support you should have had.
I am blown away!


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[Curegirl]

Peggy, you are a very brave, very loving person.

[Ladybug]

I think other part of the discussion to have is the emotional intensity of sexual relationships. Are you ready for that in high school? There is a biochemical bonding process. How are you going to feel when they break up with you or start dating your friend? The intensity of everything is amplified when you take a relationship to that level. Studies have shown that teens are three times more likely to suffer from depression if they are sexually active. They aren't emotionally ready, particularly when the relationship breaks down.

[houseelf]

Lots of great thoughts here, from all sides!

A couple of things:

I also disagree fundamentally with the focus on marriage inherent in the whole discussion. Marriage isn't everyone's goal. And if marriage isn't assumed, the conversation about "premarital" sex is very different.

YES! I think this is why I have come to this conclusion. You can have a great, meaningful life and not get married. Sometimes, I feel like marriage is the "default" position and people end up in not-so-great situations, and our divorce rate is like 47%

I think other part of the discussion to have is the emotional intensity of sexual relationships. Are you ready for that in high school? There is a biochemical bonding process.

I talk about this aspect A LOT. In my mind, this is one of the most compelling, understated reasons to wait.

I don't think I insinuated that abstinence-only ed. is tantamount with strong-arming, if I did give that impression, I'm sorry. What lead me to my conclusions is my dear friend who grew up in a devout Hispanic Catholic family and received the "no sex before marriage" message from her mother. To be clear, her mother adored her, loved her completely, and would have continued to do so if she became a professional sex worker. Unfortunately, her mother died when my friend was 21 years old. At the time of her death, my friend was involved with a man in a relationship which she ultimately had sex. My friend had a terrible time throwing this loser to the curb because she did indeed have sex with him and felt like she was obligated to stay with him because she was supposed to marry him. Even though my friend wasn't strong armed by the abstinence message, she truly wanted to honor her mother's values. Somehow this became twisted in her mind that she needed to stick with this guy come hell or high-water. It took her three years with the help of a therapist to make peace with the fact that she needed to break up with him. I think this story relates back to Ladybug's point that sex takes a relationship to an emotional level you just might not be ready to handle, which of course supports abstinence or at least waiting for a very.long.time.

Honesty, guys, you should be proud of your decisions and your fortitude. There are a metric ton of ways to twist sex and all the attendant crap that comes with sex into something perverse and unhealthy. I, personally, just feel like my goal is to make my kids as prepared to lead healthy lives as possible. I think we all do. I just don't want healthy sex presented as a binary thing: inside of marriage or out. Healthy sexuality is an idea unto its own.

ETA: I'm acutely sensitive to any insinuation that sexuality makes anyone less clean or worthy or lovable. *not saying that the abstinence movement does this in and of itself. I think children need the message that they are loved for who they are regardless of choices or mistakes. We never want our kids to make a mistake. But if they do, we don't want them to compound the mistake with self-hate.