Call Issues

[mommax3]

DH had a co-worker who got who had three babies by the time she finished residency. To her credit, she was a *very* fertile myrtle who got pregnant the third time while on the mini-pill AND nursing. She was a wreck when she found out #3 was on the way, and she was only able to take three weeks (her vacation time for the year) off, since she had already had a maternity leave during residency. No one was mad at her or thought she did it on purpose, but it SUCKED for DH and the other male residents, and they were in a big program that you would think could absorb leaves better.....I can't imagine what it is like in a small program.

Sally

[SuzySunshine]

This is one reason why the only married female in DH's program has waited until her research years to have her child, it won't affect anyone else. It is also why we've waited as well. DH probably won't get much time at the birth if we have it before July '08 but between July '08 - June '10 he can take time without it affecting anyone else because he won't be on service or on call.

[Cumberland]

At DH's program, you can take up to six weeks ML, but at the end of the calendar year, everyone has to have the same number of calls.

I worked as a community health nurse when I was new out of nursing school. I was the only one who was not married and no kids. I got put on double the weekends bc 'they needed to be with their families and i didnt have one I didnt speak up but still have issues about this.

[Vishenka69]

I guess everything depends on your own situation. One guy in the whole year/program not taking Saturday call doesn't both me because in DH's program both chiefs take no weekend call. For no other reason then they're the biggest suck-ups in the program. I think it'd be easier to swallow if there were religious reasons involved.

Also in anesthesia, there are many treatments that involve being exposed to x-rays and other radioactive materials. Pregnant or nursing residents/attendings can't do these, so it falls to the men/single women to do those cases. Why should my husband take more call and be radiated? Then there are really heavy patients that women don't like to work with (they have to be manually moved), so in the end men get the short end of the stick anyway. Although DH said that men get their revenge later by not accepting women to partnership track positions.

[Phoebe]

This is a sore issue with DH and I.

As an attending, DH has had two kids. The first time, they had people cover his call so I could get a ride home from the hospital and he had to make it up eventhough the director told him it was a gift. When he was upset about it, a female coworker who was about to take maternity leave, accused him of not being a team player. The second time, DH asked for two weeks off for vacation. The schedule maker told him he wouldn't be able to take the time because other people wanted vacation (it was a school break or something) and actually put him on call. Whats more important? Taking a long weekend vacation or having a baby?

When DH's grandmother died, he was only allowed one day off. Other people have taken a whole week for their long lost relative's funeral and not charged PTO.

I am a little bitter!

[fluffhead]

For Christians, Christ is the ultimate example. And, if Christ healed on the Sabbath and taught others it was OK to do so then that's good enough for me!

Well I don't think you'll find many Christians requesting a sabbath observant residency.

In terms of observant Jews, healing is permitted on the sabbath, but paperwork and scutwork might be problematic. The way most observant residents get around it, is to say that the training is essential to future life saving skills, and thus they are permitted to do "whatever it takes." The issue with many has been that with friday night call, driving home on saturday morning might be forbidden, because there's no health issues involved. Different people handle this in various ways depending on their backgrounds and preferences, but many just drive home or take a cab.

This has been an issue in many programs around the NYC area, with feelings of resentment and special treatment cropping up. It's my feeling that if a program is not large enough to permit one or two residents to avoid fri or sat call without severely impacting the other residents, then they shouldn't offer it. But if they market their program as "sabbath observant available" I think it's wrong to renege on the commitment later on, even if others complain. It's up to the PDs/chiefs to make sure the workload is fairly distributed with minimal inconvenience to all.

[alison]

[quote="fluffhead"]Different people handle this in various ways depending on their backgrounds and preferences, but many just drive home or take a cab./quote]

This reminded me of something. The guy was telling me that he cannot handle money, so he sticks the cab fare in his pocket. He hails a cab, the cabbie has to open and close the door (so that *he* isn't the one turning on the dome light in the cab). When he gets home, the cabbie takes the money out of his pocket.

He hails a cab, the cabbie has to open and close the door (so that *he* isn't the one turning on the dome light in the cab). When he gets home, the cabbie takes the money out of his pocket.

That one is surprising to me. I know that observant Jews are not allowed to flip the switches to turn the lights on or off, but I wouldn't think door opening is an issue. I hope the money in his pocket includes a nice tip!

[fluffhead]

the problem isn't the door opening - it's the dome light turning on when you open the door. Issue is easily fixed if the cabbie opened driver's door first, so dome light is already on. Then guy opens door, gets in, closes door, and then cabbie closes door. I'm sure cabbies around nyc hospitals are used to this stuff.
As for the money, people usually set aside enough for fare+tip in an envelope, and just give it to the cabbie.

[Sheherezade]

I think it's complicated....and it seems interpretted differently by different people. I had some family friends that were Orthodox in Brookline and they always bickered about the "right" way to observe. The toughest of the crew would refuse to put carrots in a bowl for the sister putting out lunch on Saturday......and then they'd fight about if that was "allowed" or not.

I'm so glad my family doesn't have this layer of "fun". Imagine Thanksgiving dinner every Friday night.

I think observing the Sabbath is actually pretty cool....but it is hard to do in this culture. Too bad we all can't slow down in synchrony anymore.

[Phoebe]

I think observing the Sabbath is actually pretty cool....but it is hard to do in this culture. Too bad we all can't slow down in synchrony anymore.

ITA. Wouldn't that be nice!

It's my feeling that if a program is not large enough to permit one or two residents to avoid fri or sat call without severely impacting the other residents, then they shouldn't offer it. But if they market their program as "sabbath observant available" I think it's wrong to renege on the commitment later on, even if others complain. It's up to the PDs/chiefs to make sure the workload is fairly distributed with minimal inconvenience to all.

That makes sense to me.

[alison]

It's my feeling that if a program is not large enough to permit one or two residents to avoid fri or sat call without severely impacting the other residents, then they shouldn't offer it. But if they market their program as "sabbath observant available" I think it's wrong to renege on the commitment later on, even if others complain. It's up to the PDs/chiefs to make sure the workload is fairly distributed with minimal inconvenience to all.

That makes sense to me.

I agree. What you say seems more than fair. In practice however, it'd be nice if my husband could come home early every Friday - no questions asked. We could plan dinner with friends, we could go to a concert, schedule a flight to leave on a Friday evening before one of his vacations without having to worry that he'll have to stay late, etc. For us, it would just be a matter of convenience. But still, why does wanting these basic weekend rights get trumped?

To tell you the truth, it SUCKS when the guy leaves at noon on Friday and I know that my husband's got to stay indefinitely AND go in again the next day for a 24 hour call.

He's got at least one day off a week! At the very least. It's up to you if you spend that day going to church or to some other religious service. Or on the couch with your family. IMHO it's not my problem, so don't make it mine.

[pstone]

As far as maternity leave goes...if and when we have another kid (during residency) the program will have to deal with it. And to continue that part with over 50% women comming out of med school next year every program is going to have to deal with it. Will have to make up the maternity leave, so it is not less work, just shifted.

[fluffhead]

But Alison, the way it works with sabbath observant residencies is - to make it fair for everybody and for the ortho. person to make up his hours, he or she ends up having to work every single Sunday, I believe.
No golden weekends, at all.
So it ends up sucking for everybody.
But I don't think it would suck any worse for your husband if the other person didn't leave at noon on Friday. If it's just sour grapes, I don't think that's a reason to say yea or nay to the program.