breast feeding, test taking medical mom

holy monkey! I (didn't read the whole article) thought this was for CP boards. She failed Step 2?? As in "Step 1, study 2 months, Step 2, study 2 weeks, Step 3, bring a #2 pencil?" An MD/PhD from Harvard? Can you even complete ERAS w/o Step 2 scores? I found another article saying she'd been "offered" a CP spot at Mass General (so much for helping the American public understand how residency works).

Assuming Davita is right (and I'm sure she is) if the test can be scheduled with that much latitude, then rather than hiring an attorney, she should have postponed taking the test until her milk supply has evened off (older babies nurse less).

And if her goal is to do research, she can do that w/o doing residency. She has a frickin' Harvard PhD.

This is proof that smart people can be really stupid.

[houseelf]

I'm with the"can't she just 'tap herself off' to relieve pressure" camp rather than trying to get three full feedings. She has already asked for so much.

A whole hour, uh-uh, my friend. You get 5 minutes to tap yourself off with a double breasted pump, 5 to pee, and 5 to get back to your desk. I guess that babykins is just going to have to have frozen milk or formula that day.

And for whatever it is worked, I bf both kids until 11 months each while working and had a horrible time keeping my milk supply going with the pump. This is two stinking days, not forever.

Kelly

[DCJenn]

maybe she can't afford her undergrad school loans and figured that was a quick and easy get rich scheme?

Honestly, I gave up the equality 'equals' different standards 14 years ago when my ex-husband herniated himself carrying a 400 pound woman down three flights of stairs because the female EMT couldn't do it. (he ended up bouncing the poor woman down the stairs).

I don't think women are doing themselves or any others of us a favor when they can't meet the same standards as men. If you can't lift a 150 pound ladder over your head, then I don't want you trying to rescue me in a fire. If you can? Hell yeah sista, I'll be jumping into your arms ASAP.

It's always pissed me off that women expect to be treated differently. Sure, if you're pregnant, don't go into battle (don't get pregnant to avoid it, either but that's another debate). If you're nursing, congratulations on your little bundle. But that was your decision to have that baby at this precise moment in time, and that was your decision to nurse through your exams. Suck it up, grow up and realize that you're not doing anyone any favors, especially yourself. If your boobs are infected- it seems to me you have a couple of decisions- you're not held captive by a baby with a gun- stop nursing or take some flippin' antibiotics. Move on.

How about a little adult responsibility every now and again?

Jenn

PS- it's not like formula = bad outcomes. and there are no Girl Scout badges for breast-feeding, 'natural' birth, menopause without hormones, periods without Ibuprofin, etc. RANT= See- this crap is what is wrong with our society. WHO CARES if this chick gets crusty inflammed boobs because she CHOSE to breastfeed until and through a major exam? Why is this anyone's problem but hers? It's not a reflection on Society. It's a reflection on her crappy ass attitude.

maybe she can't afford her undergrad school loans and figured that was a quick and easy get rich scheme?

Honestly, I gave up the equality 'equals' different standards 14 years ago when my ex-husband herniated himself carrying a 400 pound woman down three flights of stairs because the female EMT couldn't do it. (he ended up bouncing the poor woman down the stairs).

I don't think women are doing themselves or any others of us a favor when they can't meet the same standards as men. If you can't lift a 150 pound ladder over your head, then I don't want you trying to rescue me in a fire. If you can? Hell yeah sista, I'll be jumping into your arms ASAP.

It's always pissed me off that women expect to be treated differently. Sure, if you're pregnant, don't go into battle (don't get pregant to avoid it, either but that's another debate). If you're nursing, congratulations on your little bundle. But that was your decision to have that baby at this precise moment in time, and that was your decision to nurse through your exams. Suck it up, grow up and realize that you're not doing anyone any favors, especially yourself. If your boobs are infected- it seems to me you have a couple of decisions- you're not held captive by a baby with a gun- stop nursing or take some flippin' antibiotics. Move on.

How about a little adult responsibility every now and again?

Jenn

PS- it's not like formula = bad outcomes.

Amen Sister Friend!! THAT is what I wanted to say.

You can complete ERAS without Step 2 scores. My DW's weren't available quite yet when she applied, but you better believe most programs wanted those as soon as she got an interview. But there are some places that will even accept you without registering them yet, but they are few.

And as I said at the beginning of this thread, my wife pumped just fine during Step 2 without any added time. And all throughout her residency interviews (before the airports banned liquids, thank God -- and thank God for hotel ice). She also had no trouble finding time to do it while finishing medical school, although she got creative at times. When baby No. 2 comes at any time, she is going to try and keep it going as long as possible, now as a PGY2. I'm pretty sure she'll figure out a way because it is pretty important to her.

No one should be discriminated against for breast feeding. But I think this woman is asking for special privileges where they aren't needed and that sets a bad precedent, which can hurt people down the road who really do need special accommodations.

Y

No one should be discriminated against for breast feeding. But I think this woman is asking for special privileges where they aren't needed and that sets a bad precedent, which can hurt people down the road who really do need special accommodations.

Exactly.

[PrincessFiona]

There are way too many unrelated issues really to address here anymore. I don't know if I agree with her wanting those extra 60 minutes to pump tacked onto her test..and I'm not sure whether it is right or not...but to have a group of women sit here and accuse her of trying to sue for money to pay off her student loans

Come on you guys.

Sometimes, I think compassion has completely flown out the iMSN window.

I do think that the tone of the responses here is way out of proportion to what is actually the topic...and it is all because she wants the extra time to breastfeed. For some reason, that has elicited a very negative, angry response from many of you...that has, quite frankly, surprised me.

I have never asked for special accommodations because I'm a woman, but I don't begrudge someone else if they need to.

There is a lot of anger in this thread. A lot...and I wonder really where it comes from. But...I won't ask, because I'm not interested in the angry response.

Also...

If you do a little research you'll find an article that was done a few years earlier on her dyslexia and accomodations and she didn't seem that freaky.

[madeintaiwan]

People like her do make me a little angry but it's not something that I carry with me. We're talking about it in this debate and that's where it ends for me. Does her behavior bug me? Yes. Will it stop me from enjoying my day and life in general? No. I am a very compassionate person when the situation warrants compassion.

For me, this chick and others like her rub me the wrong mainly because of the way I was brought up. My mother came to this country as a Chinese woman (post Vietnam, amerasian, refugee boom) who could barely speak English with a brown kid that looked nothing like her. She landed in LAX and someone propositioned her for sex, with her 2 year old daughter with her. We lived on a military base where we got snarky looks and treatment because if my mom was going to marry a GI, he should have at least been white not black. Oh and for my sake my mom tried to make it work with my dad during which time, he refused and prevented her from taking classes to learn English or drive a car. And told her that if he wanted to be married to someone with attitude he would have married a black woman. Oh and the yelling and the breaking my mom's arm in front of me. And the purposely requesting to be shipped to Japan and Korea for months on end because he didn't want to be with my mother or I. Then there's the divorce and my mom raising a brown kid by herself.

But she raised me and raised me well, working her ass, never taking a hand out from the government or any family or friends. She studied so hard for her citizenship test and was extremely proud that she took it and passed it in English even though it was offered in Mandarin. And I KNOW that I didn't have it that bad growing up and I am thankful for all the things, people, and opportunities that I have had in my life. I rarely hold a grudge and if you're nice to me I will be more than nice back to you. Hell, even if you aren't nice to me, I'll still smile at you. I kiss with my eyes closed and love with my heart wide open, no matter how many times it is broken. I don't expect people to give me any handouts or make exceptions for me just because I wasn't born here, my dad beat up my mom, my parents divorced, we were super poor, I watched my neighbor blow away his girlfriend in the middle of the crosswalk, I'm brown and yellow, my babysitter's sister touched me the wrong way, my first sexual experience was by force, or my boyfriend cheated on me repeatedly then tried to beat me. And all of this and more happened before I was 17. Just like my mom, I make no excuses for my shortcomings or take pity on myself for the crap that has happened in my life and I work my ass off to be the best me that I can be. So yes people like her really bug me. I'm all about helping people when they need a little help. But pumping as an obstacle, give me a break. If she can't manage to overcome that hurdle she might as well give up now.

[DCJenn]

but to have a group of women sit here and accuse her of trying to sue for money to pay off her student loans

Oh Come On...

Why ELSE would this even be on the flippin' radar? As Davita so eloquently put it, people do a LOT more w/ a LOT less. She gets a bye because her boobs hurt? because it's the 'mother and child reunion'?

That's Bullshit in the First Degree. Just as we've been arguing that the dads should have equal rights when it comes to maternity leave- but yet when it comes to the breast- that's off limits? Why? because ohhhhh, she's 'nursing.'

No, that's wanting it both ways and that's crap, too.

She's expecting to be treated 'just like the guys' in terms of the rest of her education so why does she get this break? because she has boobs and she's given birth.

BFD.

Just like it's not fair that those people w/ peckers and balls who are 50% involved in the creation of their child don't get the same breaks as those who bear them aka the OTHER 50%.

Jenn

and for the record- of people want to nurse in public at Starbucks or anywhere else, GREAT! I think we can all agree it's obviously the best thing for the baby. but they don't get to bump me in line either and that's tantamount to what she's doing.

[pstone]

Sometimes, I think compassion has completely flown out the iMSN window.

Except when it is your spouse or you life that is getting screwed of course, then people want compassion.

Funny part in reading all of this is how everyone is 'brainwashed' in to thinking the way it has always been is the right way. Believe me, there are men running companies everywhere laughing.

I would have thought feminism would have meant more then allowing women to work in a mans world, I would have thought it would have meant changing the way the world works. Alas I was wrong.

If she can't manage to overcome that hurdle she might as well give up now.

Exactly.

The whole "gee - you're all so angry" is pretty interesting. Since when do we debate w/o our emotions invested in it?

A woman who was able to even GO to Harvard b/c of the women that went before her and said "We should not be treated differently." is asking for special treatment b/c she's a woman. She's failed this exam before (which, BTW if she's failing Step 2, watch out what she asks the American College of Pathologists for, b/c the CP exam is the one EVERYONE fails **except my husband, he passed that with flying colors -- it's the one everyone passes that killed him **).

She may be thinking "I'll be nervous, so I'll need more time to pump and then I'll have more time to compose myself before the next section." I'm sorry, but the rest of them have nerves, too. Maybe someone else will be so nervous they won't be able to pee the whole time -- should they get extra time too? Other women have been able to take this exam and nurse or pump in the alotted time, an amount of time that 98% of the women who've responded to this thread (and all but 1 has breast fed) has said should / would be more than enough time.

She hasn't even tried to accomplish the pumping in the alotted time. She's asking for special allowances right off the bat. I looked online a lot last night, and didn't find anything saying she'd had a history of mastitis or blocked ducts. She's just saying "this *could* happen, so give ME extra time." I understand not wanting to fail again, or to set her residency back, but other people have other issues they have to deal with too, and most won't ask for special favors.

We're not lacking compassion. We're just not applauding / excusing whiners.

[PrincessFiona]

Re: breast feeding, test taking medical mom

I will concede. I actually agree now about her not getting extra time for the breastfeeding but I do so with a bit of a bitter heart...only because of how I feel this topic was argued. Again...I'm in the minority on that.

I've had an intervention and I've now been banned from the boards until Monday by my best buddy/fellow admin...the one who regularly puts her foot up my behind when I need it/deserve it.

Carry on....

Kris

[madeintaiwan]

Re: breast feeding, test taking medical mom

I would have thought feminism would have meant more then allowing women to work in a mans world, I would have thought it would have meant changing the way the world works. Alas I was wrong.

To allow someone EXTRA time to pump while taking the USMLE Step2CK. Whatever. I'm sure that's going to make the world a better place for my children. I can remember someone stating that minorities and working class/poor people shouldn't expect hand outs/exceptions in life and that they can make it to the top just the same without them.

While I am totally pro breastfeeding (obviously, when I weaned my kids they were old enough to ask me to go the store to get them more ni ni), you CAN not pump for a day and still be able to nurse your child for years if you want.

[GrayMatterWife]

Re: breast feeding, test taking medical mom

. . . I actually agree now about her not getting extra time for the breastfeeding but I do so with a bit of a bitter heart...only because of how I feel this topic was argued. Again...I'm in the minority on that.

Kris

I agree with everyone's implied "Oh, PLEASE! Give me a break!" response. I kind of agree with Kris, too, in the sense that I was suprised at how pretty uniformly everyone came to this conclusion. I guess I was expecting a wide variety of opinions.

Just a thought: is it possible that the majority's view is, in any way, shaped by the subject-mom's profession as a physician? That is, does anyone think they were less tolerant of her request for special treatment because she was a physician?

For example, if she had been sitting for the NCLEX or her teaching license or the police sargent's exam, would that have affected anyone's feelings? I have to admit...I am less tolerant of whiney doctors. Often, I find them to be self-obsessed (though not vain--just really worried about their situation, their problems, etc.), slow to recognize other people's contributions, and expecting people to be tolerant and understanding of their situation because, after all, they are doctors. If you throw in any sense of intellectual or moral superiority to those traits, those are the doctors you can't stand talking to at dinner parties.

Anyhow, I personally tend to have little sympathy or compassion for physicians. I tend to impute my DH's circumstances onto all physicians: he chose this and now he must live with the consequences--good and bad--and not ask for people to accommodate other things for that choice. And I hate their excuses (why they're late; why they're tired; why they're grouchy; . . . why they're boobs are interferring with a test . . . ).

[Vanquisher]

Re: breast feeding, test taking medical mom

. . . I actually agree now about her not getting extra time for the breastfeeding but I do so with a bit of a bitter heart...only because of how I feel this topic was argued. Again...I'm in the minority on that.

Kris

I agree with everyone's implied "Oh, PLEASE! Give me a break!" response. I kind of agree with Kris, too, in the sense that I was suprised at how pretty uniformly everyone came to this conclusion. I guess I was expecting a wide variety of opinions.

Just a thought: is it possible that the majority's view is, in any way, shaped by the subject-mom's profession as a physician? That is, does anyone think they were less tolerant of her request for special treatment because she was a physician?

For example, if she had been sitting for the NCLEX or her teaching license or the police sargent's exam, would that have affected anyone's feelings? I have to admit...I am less tolerant of whiney doctors. Often, I find them to be self-obsessed (though not vain--just really worried about their situation, their problems, etc.), slow to recognize other people's contributions, and expecting people to be tolerant and understanding of their situation because, after all, they are doctors. If you throw in any sense of intellectual or moral superiority to those traits, those are the doctors you can't stand talking to at dinner parties.

Anyhow, I personally tend to have little sympathy or compassion for physicians. I tend to impute my DH's circumstances onto all physicians: he chose this and now he must live with the consequences--good and bad--and not ask for people to accommodate other things for that choice. And I hate their excuses (why they're late; why they're tired; why they're grouchy; . . . why they're boobs are interferring with a test . . . ).

The fact that she is taking the USMLE to become a physician is absolutely ingrained with why I am so intolerant of this. If I knew her, I would probably be very sympathetic to her cause...maybe. Usually, I am ALL for giving people a leg up. I guess in this profession where I am constantly beat down over and over and over again, it's hard to see someone fighting so hard and taking up the mantle of the cause which is...more time to pump after having already failed Step II. It does feel like entitlement. If she was sitting for some other test, I would probably be floored that she couldn't have the extra time. It's just that medicine is so brutal, so hard, and everyone has to jump through these enormous hoops. I am totally guilty of the, WE had to do it syndrome here.

This is choppy and tangental and doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

If her cause was actual adherence to the 80 hour work week so that she could bond with her children and sleep, I would be sending money her way and at her pep rally. If she wanted to raise the wage of residents so that she could afford to have her child in daycare so that she could be a physician, I would be shouting her praises from the rooftops. If she was fighting for moonlighting priveleges so that she could help pay off her enormous debt -time that would be her own and shouldn't be legally in the possession of her residency program, I would be her #1 fan.

As it is, I think this is just kind of lame. I've been thinking about it though, and I hope she matches at a really malignant program (here), and uses all of this energy in a way that will impact the system at large.

Because, really, it's all about me.