Maine Middle School to offer Birth Control

[planet]

Re: Maine Middle School to offer Birth Control

Wait...so Abigail...it IS illegal for 11 year olds to have sex with each other? What are legal ages of consent between minors?

[Vanquisher]

Re: Maine Middle School to offer Birth Control

Just because a child is not at the age of consent doesn't mean that he/she is not having sex. Just because it is illegal does not mean that a child is not going to have sex.

I know everyone is up in arms over the 11-year-old thing. As the original article stated, 14 & 15 year olds who were still in middle school were the main targets of this program, but I have to add that if you think that there are no 11-year-olds out there in the country having sex, you are naive. Yes, they probably come from tragic dysfunction in their own lives. Yes, we need to help educate children about sexuality, the repercussions of it, and help them to make better choices. That doesn't mean they will.

However, if a child who is having sex and has already made that decision to do so can acquire the means to protect themselves from disease and teenage pregnancy, I don't understand the decision to shout "abstinence only" from the rooftops, "it's illegal; you can't consent, you are too young." Please. Yeah, when they are doing in their boyfriends parents bedrooms in the middle of the day while their parents are at work, they really care. Maybe, though, if they had taken the pill, or had a condom with them, maybe they would use it, and maybe it would prevent one more tragedy.

A child getting an STD or pregnant IS a tragedy, and the age of consent laws are just words, and while meant to protect these children, do they at all? Are you going to throw an 11-year-old girl in juvenile hall because she has such a low opinion of herself and wants to be loved so she is having sex with a 12-year-old?

Maybe YOUR children aren't having sex, and thank the stars for that, but there ARE children having sex as much as you might want to turn a blind eye to it, blame their parents, and call the adults who provide them with the means to protect themselves evil. I hope your children don't have sex until they are truly ready, but lots of them do. What is the alternative here? I think we can all agree that more preventative measures need to be taken to reduce the number of children having sex, but so many people fail to see that 11-year-olds even know what sex is, let alone are collecting jelly bracelets of different colors to announce their sexual promiscuity. Oh, and oral sex, isn't sex at all - not to a child, not to politicians. Do you prefer the thought of a casual blow job to prevent pregnancy? He'll love me if I do it? Or worse, I have such a low opinion of myself that I don't care if he loves me, but it's fun, and I'll get the attention for having done it, good or bad?

Children aren't old enough to effectively use condoms, birth control, or judgement about when to have sex, but they do anyway, and we need to give them as many tools as we can to prevent any tragedies possible. Pass out the condoms. Give BCPs to those girls who ask for it.

[GrayMatterWife]

Re: Maine Middle School to offer Birth Control

Wait...so Abigail...it IS illegal for 11 year olds to have sex with each other? What are legal ages of consent between minors?

Yes.

The legal age of consent varies from state-to-state. No state has the age as low as 11.

[GrayMatterWife]

Re: Maine Middle School to offer Birth Control

However, if a child who is having sex and has already made that decision to do so can acquire the means to protect themselves from disease and teenage pregnancy, I don't understand the decision to shout "abstinence only" from the rooftops, "it's illegal; you can't consent, you are too young." Please. Yeah, when they are doing in their boyfriends parents bedrooms in the middle of the day while their parents are at work, they really care. Maybe, though, if they had taken the pill, or had a condom with them, maybe they would use it, and maybe it would prevent one more tragedy.

A child getting an STD or pregnant IS a tragedy, and the age of consent laws are just words, and while meant to protect these children, do they at all? Are you going to throw an 11-year-old girl in juvenile hall because she has such a low opinion of herself and wants to be loved so she is having sex with a 12-year-old?

I never argued that you should rely on a solution whereby you tell an 11-year-old that s/he can't have sex because it's illegal. That won't work as a solution for the same reason that s/he has decided to have sex--they are too young to be able to make responsible decisions beyond their own immediate desires/myopic concerns. My point is that the strategy you choose should not act in a way that is contrary to the law. That strips the law of its potency and makes the public policy of the age of consent hollow. Treating 11-year-olds like adults based on the fact that they biologically can have sex doesn't empower them to act like adults; it just abandons them from the protection that the law believed they should have. Don't get me wrong--I think abstience-only education to 16-year-olds is not satisfactory. I personally had a stellar, thorough sex-ed course in high school and really benefited from it. However, anything other than an "abstience only" approach to 11-year-olds flies in the face of the law as well as everything we know about decision-making abilities at that age. A solution focused on intervention, therapy, education, parental involvement, and crime-reporting (when there is a perpetrator) is appropriate and consistent with the values that we as a society have reflected in our laws.

And the law is never "just words." It is the legally enforceable rights that we as citizens chose to have through our elected officials. It is who we are as a society. The law should either be enforced or changed, but it shouldn't be ignored by adults because it is not respected by middle schoolers.

I never argued you should jail the child. As I stated, children under the age of consent who voluntarily participate in sex are not the offender--they are the victim. If two 11-year-olds have sex, no one has committed a jailable offense. The offense is jailable only if it rises to statutory rape, which involves a person over a certain age having sex with a person under a certain age. Then there is a victim and a perpetrator and the perpetrator may be subject to jail.

One can argue antecdotally that, "Well, you just think it won't happen to your kids." I suppose, an implied, "Well, you think your kids will be better than that, so you're ignoring other kids' suffering." On a personal level, that not the case. I was a teacher to this age group. I am quite aware of the realities that these kids go through and experienced in knowing that children look for boundaries and support. If the adults are not providing them with clear boundaries and expectations, they will chose the boundaries that are given to them by their other influences. Giving condoms/BC to 11-year-olds, in my opinion, is failing to set an appropriate boundary.

[GrayMatterWife]

Re: Maine Middle School to offer Birth Control

And, as an aside, I would be FURIOUS if the school district gave my 11-year-old daugher a prescription for BC. No one has the right to facilitate my child taking prescription medication without my permission. I am her guardian and I make legal and medical decisions for her, not the school. I do not like to sue, but that might be something I would consider a suit over.

[DrWahoo]

Re: Maine Middle School to offer Birth Control

The fact that 15 and 14 year olds are in the same school as 11 year olds never set right with me in the first place. I don't think 6th graders should be in middle school. When I grew up 6th graders were still in elementary school. Anyway, won't it still be embarrassing to ask a health care provider for BC. Or are health care providers asking them if they want it ? If health care providers are offering it to them if they just come in for a cold or something, to me that is a little disconcerting, and it does encourage kids to have sex. As a society I don't think we are consistent in understanding what promotes certain behaviors. How is it that people can sue McDonald's for causing them to be obese ? Or that the availability of guns promotes violence ? But asking a child if they want a condom does not encourage them to have sex ? I do have problem with my tax dollars promoting risky behavior.

[Stella]

Re: Maine Middle School to offer Birth Control

Everyone keeps doting on the 11 year olds in this situation. What about the 7th and 8th graders?? My SO was 14 in 8th grade. My ex had sex at 15 and I had friends in high school who had lots of sex in middle school. It's a valid point that it's not just an 11 year old girl we are talking about here. It's a wide range.

Would you feel differently if it were passed out to kids aged 13+????? What's your cutoff? How do you draw that line?

[madeintaiwan]

Re: Maine Middle School to offer Birth Control

Maine middle school to offer birth control
School board approves pills and patches for students ages 11 to 13
The Associated Press
Updated: 7:43 a.m. CT Oct 18, 2007
PORTLAND, Maine - Pupils at a city middle school will be able to get birth control pills and patches at their student health center after the local school board approved the proposal Wednesday evening.

The plan, offered by city health officials, makes King Middle School the first middle school in Maine to make a full range of contraception available to students in grades 6 through 8, according to the state Department of Health and Human Services.

There are no national figures on how many middle schools, where most students range in age from 11 to 13, provide such services.

“It’s very rare that middle schools do this,” said Divya Mohan, a spokeswoman for the National Assembly on School-Based Health Care.

The Portland School Committee voted 7-2 for the measure.

Chairman John Coyne voted against it, saying he felt providing the birth control was a parental responsibility. The other no vote came from Ben Meiklejohn, who said the consent form does not clearly define the services being offered.

Opponents cited religious and health objections.

Diane Miller said she felt the plan was against religion and against God. Another opponent, Peter Doyle, said he felt it violated the rights of parents and puts students at risk of cancer because of hormones in the pill.

A supporter, Richard Verrier, said it’s not enough to depend on parents to protect their children because there may be students who can’t discuss things with their parents.

Parental permission required
Condoms have been available since 2000 to King students who have parental permission to be treated at its student health center.

About one-fourth of student health centers that serve at least one grade of adolescents 11 and older dispense some form of contraception, said Mohan, whose Washington-based organization represents more than 1,700 school-based centers nationwide.

At King Middle School, birth control prescriptions will be given after a student undergoes a physical exam by a physician or nurse practitioner, said Lisa Belanger, who oversees Portland’s student health centers.

Students treated at the centers must first get written parental permission, but under state law such treatment is confidential, and students decide for themselves whether to tell their parents about the services they receive.

Five of the 134 students who visited King’s health center during the 2006-07 school year reported having sexual intercourse, said Amanda Rowe, lead nurse in Portland’s school health centers.

A high school in Topeka, Kan., stopped providing free condoms to students Wednesday after district officials learned of the month-old program. The district has a policy against providing contraceptives.


© 2007 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
URL: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21358971/

Maybe I am confused but doesn't the program state that students must receive parental consent before receiving treatment at the center. If you don't want your kid to "maybe" be on BC through the school then don't give them consent to go to the health center. I just don't see the problem. Parents who are for it, will consent. Those who aren't won't and they will sleep the sleep of the parents who "know" that their kid isn't out there having sex because they told them not to. I'm a little taken aback by the attitude that only "bad parents" have kids who have premarital/premature/illegal/underage sex. For me, I just wouldn't be out there sprinkling that karma dust around. Dr. Daddy's little girls come home with STDs and knocked up too.

[DCJenn]

Re: Maine Middle School to offer Birth Control

You're coming from this from the standpoint of a parent who actually cares about their child's behavior.

Remember, there are significant numbers of parents who would beat the crap out of their kid for 'defying' them and there are probably even more who just don't care and there are probably just as many who do care but for working 2 jobs or being addicted or mentally ill or whatever, can't find it within themselves to manage their own kids.

MOST of the girls I have here who were sexually assaulted were sexually assaulted by people they know and/or loved and nearly all of it happened between the ages of 11-15. and once they were assaulted? All bets were off. Off the top of my head I'd say 45% were assaulted by family members, 50% were assaulted by family friends (mom's boyfriend, dad's friend, etc.) which leaves that lone 5% who were assaulted by strangers.

So...who are you going to go to for support when it's the very people who are supposed to support you who are also sexually assaulting you.

THOSE are the girls (and boys) I'm talking about.

Jenn

[madeintaiwan]

Re: Maine Middle School to offer Birth Control

It's says that it's confidential under state law and that students are not required to tell their parents about services rendered. The new thing is that services rendered involve giving scripts.

It's not about "my daughter would never do that." Not in the least. It's about if you know something dangerous is going on with my child then I have a right to know as his/her parent. If you educate her on safe sex, give her the confidence to have sex "safely" and yet she lacks the maturity to utilize it properly who's left holding the bag? US!!!! Not the school. That's why I think that under the age of consent I have a right to know and deserve a chance to do what I can.

Why is it such a bad thing to involve a parent in this age group? :huh:

Fine, then don't give your child consent to go to the health center and you won't have to worry about not knowing about services rendered because there will be none. There is absolutely nothing wrong with parental involvement. You would think that if you have the kind of relationship with your child that you are willing to consent to them going to the center in the first place that after the child comes home from her appointment she is probably going discuss what happened with you. If you don't want the school involved or it doesn't sit right with you not knowing if your child decided to get BC at her appointment and chose not to tell you, then don't give her consent to go their in the first place. And maybe it's not about "my daughter would never do that" for you, but that reasoning has been stated in this forum.

[madeintaiwan]

Re: Maine Middle School to offer Birth Control

what Jenn said.

[GrayMatterWife]

Re: Maine Middle School to offer Birth Control

DUDE!!! I TOTALLY CALLED THIS!! Man, I thought for a while I was losing my mind or just really, deeply mistaken. I asked my DH, "Am I crazy? I was posting on the 'Debates' forum [insert groan from my DH and eye-rolling], and I said that I thought this was a legal problem from reporting requirements point-of-view, but no one is covering this angle of the story. Am I nuts?" His response: "Yes, you're nuts, but what's that got to do with the issue?"

Anyhow, see below, a story running today in the Portland Press Herald (italics are mine):

Portland's school-based health centers have not been reporting all illegal sexual activity involving minors as required by law, but they will from now on, city officials said Thursday.
Cumberland County District Attorney Stephanie Anderson questioned the health centers' reporting practices after the Portland School Committee decided last week to offer prescription birth control at the King Middle School health center.
The King Student Health Center has offered comprehensive reproductive health care, including providing condoms and testing for sexually transmitted diseases, since it opened in 2000. The school serves students in grades 6 to 8, ages 11 to 15.
Maine law prohibits having sex with a person under age 14, regardless of the age of the other person involved, Anderson said.
A health care provider must report all known or suspected cases of sex with minors age 13 and under to the state Department of Health and Human Services, she said. Abuse also must be reported to the appropriate district attorney's office, Anderson said, when the suspected perpetrator is someone other than the minor's parent or guardian.
"When it's somebody under age 14, it is a crime and it must be reported," Anderson said. "The health care provider has no discretion in the matter. It's up to the district attorney to decide."
Anderson said she contacted Portland officials after she learned that some employees of the health centers, which are operated by the city's Public Health Division, believed they could decide whether a child's sexual activity constituted criminal abuse.
In fact, if a child under age 14 was having consensual sex with someone of a similar age, health center employees weren't reporting it to the proper authorities, said City Attorney Gary Wood.
Anderson said doctors and other health care providers in private practice may falsely believe they have similar leeway, but they must follow the same laws. "It's clear that it's going on all the time," Anderson said. "Either the law is going to be enforced or it needs to be changed. I don't think a law should be routinely violated."
Portland's six school-based health centers had no formal policy on reporting sexual activity involving students under age 14, said Douglas Gardner, director of Portland's Department of Health and Human Services.
Gardner said it's unclear whether any health center employee failed to report suspected cases to the state Department of Health and Human Services, but they did fail to report cases to Anderson's office.
"Moving forward, we will report to the letter of the law," Gardner said.
He noted that the reporting issue applies to few students. Five King students reported being sexually active last year, and school officials said they were all ages 14 and 15.
Although Portland officials intend to comply with the law, exactly what the law requires remains unclear, Wood said. Having sex with a 13-year-old is clearly illegal, he said, but the law doesn't address the possibility of the other person involved being 13 years old, too.
"I think (Anderson) has raised a legitimate point," Wood said. "I'm just not sure that consensual sexual activity (between two 13-year-olds) constitutes abuse."
If Anderson's office received a report of two 13-year-olds having sex, she said, each minor would be considered a victim and a perpetrator and the case likely wouldn't be prosecuted.
Wood said he plans to seek guidance from Maine Attorney General Steven Rowe. Rowe is married to Amanda Rowe, Portland's head school nurse and a proponent of the King contraception proposal.
The School Committee voted 7-2 last week to expand contraceptive offerings at King, with John Coyne, chairman, and Benjamin Meiklejohn in opposition.
Both opponents are developing proposals that would clarify the School Department's role in offering reproductive health care at the middle school, including a possible age limit of 14 and up. The to take up the issue Nov. 7.
"If there are legal issues with providing reproductive health care at King, I would want them to be brought forward to the board and explained to make sure that it's provided in a safe and legal way," Coyne said.
Anderson said she will wait to see if the committee makes changes before deciding how to proceed.
Meiklejohn said Anderson's concern confirms his own. "I'm not opposed to the services being provided, but we need to have public confidence in whatever we do," he said.
Andrew MacNeal, a lawyer with the Maine Medical Association, called Anderson's interpretation of Maine law on this issue "conservative."
"I might argue that the health care provider has more discretion in reporting abuse," MacNeal said. "Always, a physician's first obligation is to the patient."
MacNeal said it's not practical to apply the law this way to all health care practitioners, especially when many of them wouldn't consider consensual sex between two 12-year-olds to be a crime.
MacNeal and Gardner questioned whether strict reporting requirements might have a chilling effect on young people seeking health care.
"If we're reporting to the district attorney's office, it brings it to a whole other level," Gardner said. "I don't know what that would do to the comfort level of young people coming to us for health care."

Re: Maine Middle School to offer Birth Control

A little late in the game here, but I am just loving the dialoge. Abigail - great posts, really really great.

I'm a little confused here though about a few things though:

If a child has a medication that is given w/out consent to the parents, then how can the parent make sure there aren't adversive side effects? Just how many of us know grown women who have had bad side affects from some or all b.c. available? I know lots, how is a child sappose to monitor this themselves?


Can a child at 11 understand the list of effects on the prescription, and is of maturity to actually recognise them when they are experianced?

For the very small percentage of 11 yr olds whom actually would take the prescription, what smaller percentage will take it properly to make it affective?

In a government based plan that affects all, the overall outcome should be the basis of implimation. So if the government would back this (theoritcally) how they do so on the the assumption that this could actually be helpful, for what .005% of the 11 yr old population? Because if an 11 yr old is taking a drug w/no parental oversight, then the idea should be the responcibility of the prescription is in a the hands and maturity of an 11 yr old. So again base line is this: What is the percentage 11 yr olds w/out adult supervision and oversight, able to take this drug properly?

Re: Maine Middle School to offer Birth Control

Also, personal experiance here:

My mother was pregnant at 12. She delivered at 13. My sister was born a healthy half-hispanic baby. My mother surprised the sapposid "father" who was white. That's right, at 12 my mother already had two sexual partners, whether consentual or not. She went on and perpetuated this kind of behavior the rest of her life, having 6 children, none whom she took care of for their entire childhood - and was deemed incompotent as a parent by the courts. So incompotent that she lost her son to his parental gaurdian (her husband) in the courts. That's right she lost her son to someone who wasn't even a blood parent. Now I believe my mother's problems started by rape, and I think she has mental problems. What I don't think that would have helped her, was b.c. pills. Obviously she could have taken them, and never did, or correctly. She had so many other issues, from abuse and the need for acceptance with bad choices made to find acceptance, and from mental issues, and drug/alcohal abuse, she dropped out of school at 8th grade - the idea this woman could be stable enough at 11 to take b.c. is rediculous to me. A child having sex that young has so many problems, has no stability, has no help, - that the pill actually is not helpful at all. We are fooling ourselves that a pill will help. She couldn't figure out how to take the pill right in the first place. My mother is the population we are saying we are most concerned about, well guess what a pill isn't the answer, it wouldn't even work, and it doesn't get the source of perpetuating behavior.

Also in this inner city population, anyone willing talk about how many races just refuse b.c. in the first place. It's just not something that they are comfortable with doing, so generations deny what is available. DH talks about physicians trying to beg young girls, after a live birth, to please get on b.c. - and they leave empty handed. Again, pills aren't helping this population. It sounds so good on paper, but I just don't see it actually doing anything, so it is a waist to push in this way. Same thing goes for the kids in the Christian population as Dr. Wahoo brought up - b.c.'s are in some circles seen as evil, and just won't be used even if available.


Btw, I'm totally for the pill, just don't think people who are irresponcible, or just not mature - that it's much help (talking about the 11 yr old population, or one could argue this for any age under 18, whom is not an adult). Just like Abigail said, how many of us has oops babies? I have one, I was married for 3 years and I had my son, while taking the pill - and thought I had taken it properly.

I just don't see the pill as the answer.

edited for clarification.

Re: Maine Middle School to offer Birth Control

Also I'm glad the point Abigail brought up was seen as written about in the article.