Veepstakes thoughts...

[Rapunzel]

Re: Veepstakes thoughts...

This website has been around for many years (and, I've been around for all of those years).

In the past a lot of the people on here have had no problem with using supporting information to respond to opinions with which they did not agree. In fact, if you read the posts on this website you see people generally support their own opinions when they state them and give reasons as to why they do not support other opinions. Is there something wrong with that? Because, then a ton of people on this site are in the wrong for doing so.

[Rapunzel]

Re: Veepstakes thoughts...

But, you have made a good case for this being too emotional a place for debating - where this should simply be an opinions forum and called such.

Unfortunately, even though I completely understand the thrill of delivering a well-supported counterpoint, "debating" in an environment like this takes a totally different skillset than does academic debate. It's a careful balance between debating the subject and respecting the real, sensitive individual on the other side of the screen, someone who might not be as good as you are at divorcing him- or herself from the matter being discussed. I think that stating unopposable "because that's what I think" opinions and leaving it at that would be boring. But not every discussion has to have a "winner" either. This forum could be a more approachable place -- and therefore enriched by more people and more perspectives -- if everybody thought of it more as a lively conversation over a cup of coffee than as vehement arguing modulated by the rules of debate. And what's more, hurt feelings would be less likely to carry over and taint the conversation elsewhere on the site.

And, what makes you think I disagree with this? I completely agree with it, in fact.

I'm sure you're already spread thin with your limited internet time, but maybe there's a political site or other appropriate forum where you could really let loose? I know you'd miss the occasional rounds of really witty repartee if you felt that you had to hold back here in the future.

What a very nice way to say, "Go away." Why thank you, spotty dog. Perhaps if I agreed with all of your opinions you would feel otherwise?

[Vanquisher]

Re: Veepstakes thoughts...

Oh, c'mon. Let it go. You either support your "debate" or you express your opinion. Who gives a flying shitbag what the title of the forum is or to what degree someone verifies the validity of their argument.

Well, but maybe it should be. I've always taken "Debate Forum" to be shorthand for "Place where discussions go that might incite inflamed response." Not "Place where one practices the finely honed art of debate." I understand that it's in your nature to roundly put someone in their place with a one-two punch of neatly categorized, bulletproof logic. But I think it's fair to observe that this is not a high school debate competition, it's a community of people who feel comfortable enough with each other to share opinions on even potentially inflammatory subjects. I'd like to see people walking away the richer for having experienced a broad range of perspectives, not singed by a vigorous rebuttal that hounds them into admitting defeat.

I agree with this. I don't think the name needs to be changed. I think that some people need to remember this:

This forum could be a more approachable place -- and therefore enriched by more people and more perspectives -- if everybody thought of it more as a lively conversation over a cup of coffee than as vehement arguing modulated by the rules of debate. And what's more, hurt feelings would be less likely to carry over and taint the conversation elsewhere on the site.

I am in complete agreement with Alison on this topic. So, I am copying and pasting her well thoought out replies because I have no supportable opinion of my own, but I am married to a dawkter, and that makes me awesome!

[Rapunzel]

Re: Veepstakes thoughts...

Oh, c'mon. Let it go. You either support your "debate" or you express your opinion. Who gives a flying shitbag what the title of the forum is or to what degree someone verifies the validity of their argument.

Well, as I said before I don't care whether this is an opinion forum or a debate forum. But, don't get upset with me for doing nothing wrong. And, I agree that you all need to just chill and let it go.

[spotty_dog]

Re: Veepstakes thoughts...

Is there something wrong with that? Because, then a ton of people on this site are in the wrong for doing so.

I'm going to beat this dead horse one more time. There's nothing wrong with supporting your opinions. But supporting them aggressively with no holds barred is what causes hurt feelings, sometimes irreparable ones. I learned that lesson from this forum some four years ago. I'm a bit surprised you haven't learned it yet.

I'm sure you're already spread thin with your limited internet time, but maybe there's a political site or other appropriate forum where you could really let loose? I know you'd miss the occasional rounds of really witty repartee if you felt that you had to hold back here in the future.

What a very nice way to say, "Go away." Why thank you, spotty dog. Perhaps if I agreed with all of your opinions you would feel otherwise?

Hey, now. What happened to being unemotional? This is what I mean, you need to give people the benefit of the doubt if you don't want there to be ill will down the line. You and I might not be the best of buds but I'm really glad to see you back and participating. I was just brainstorming solutions where we could have a "discuss difficult matters but still kiss each other on the cheek" discussion board (eg. if we/the mods did decide to make this an "Opinions" forum) but you could have a "exercise your brain muscle and love for debate" place to go.

But, whatever. My husband is going to be reading this board later today and giving me crap that I've spent so much time making posts. Time to get my housework done, methinks.

[Rapunzel]

Re: Veepstakes thoughts...

Well, personally, I'm taking a much needed day to relax from unpacking and a sick baby among other things.

Yes, I did get a bit emotional by you suggesting that I leave.

Now, I'm going to ask you where I have been "supporting them (my opinions) aggressively with no holds barred" causing "hurt feelings, sometimes irreparable ones in this thread or any of the three or four I've been posting in yesterday and today? Because if that is what you are accusing me of it would be much more appropriate for any of you (particularly a moderator such as Jane) to pm me and say, "Hey, I think you came off as kind of harsh here." That makes a lot more sense and, is actually, much more kind. I am encountering some fairly aggressive behavior from several of you, ironically.

[Sheherezade]

Re: Veepstakes thoughts...

Come on, folks. Settle down.

I was trying not to go all :adminpower: on you and lock the thread......but.....jeeesh!!!

I think this is getting personal and way off topic. VP choices or start a new thread. That's my "mom voice".

[Vanquisher]

Re: Veepstakes thoughts...

Just one more post on this subject, backed up by resources no less. And, because I'm awesome.

de·bate–noun 1. a discussion, as of a public question in an assembly, involving opposing viewpoints: a debate in the Senate on farm price supports.

–noun 1. forensics, (used with a singular or plural verb) the art or study of argumentation and formal debate.

Above are the #1 definitions of debate and forensics. I think this is, in fact, a debate forum, and not a forensics forum, and thus aptly named.

Oh, and I am awesome.

[Rapunzel]

Re: Veepstakes thoughts...

Yes, Heidi, there is no debating that - you are awesome.

They are both definitions of debate. One is formal and one is informal. Formal debate (forensics) has a very rigid, strict set of rules for who says what and when. There is no question that this site has an informal debate forum.

[GrayMatterWife]

Re: Veepstakes thoughts...

I am the poster who initiated this thread. And I am sorry--not because I feel like anyone has done anything wrong per se, but just because I regret that something fairly innocuous brought all this out. I hate that my thread was the catalyst, I guess.

The original topic, while interesting, was not worth the hurt feelings here, for anyone. I second Angie's motion and move to just put this thread to bed.

[DCJenn]

Re: Veepstakes thoughts...

and it's a BOY

J.

[poky]

Re: Veepstakes thoughts...

Isn't zuma that popcap game with the marbles that you shoot?

Yup! http://www.popcap.com/games/zuma

[SuzySunshine]

Re: Veepstakes thoughts...

What is with famous people and giving their kids crazy names? Don't you think they're going to have enough crap to grow up with?

[GrayMatterWife]

Re: Veepstakes thoughts...

Back on the VP thing...I would like to point out, purely for my own ego:

DUDE!!! IT'S BIDEN!!! I TOTALLY CALLED THIS!!!!

[SuzySunshine]

Re: Veepstakes thoughts...

Abigail did you get woken up by the text message and then post that? What in the world were you doing up at 2:43 in the AM?

So what do we know about Biden? I'm off to find out.