Bullying in Med School

[peggyfromwastate]

Well my dh approached some habitually late junior and med students privately, told them the expectation, texted them when to show up to round. So when a jr shows up 30 min after rounding and dh has already calmly told jr the rules what does he do? Turns to jr in front of the group, and says "jr, we were here rounding at 5. It's 5:30 now. Why are you late?". Is that humiliating? Putting someone on the spot for sleeping in and being irresponsible is not bullying. It's not public humiliation but some weanie pampered jr resident might feel "humiliated" and rightly so. Said Jr was never late again-- except for a few minutes. Dh never waited for him, and whenever said Jr showed up he had to run to catch the group and dh would stop everything and ask why he was late.

Dh was a very popular resident to work with-- always was highly praised above all the peers, but everyone knew where he stood and to get your ass out of bed bc he waited for no one. And you looked like a slacker showing up late. Because you are a slacker.

[v-girl]

Well my dh approached some habitually late junior and med students privately, told them the expectation, texted them when to show up to round. So when a jr shows up 30 min after rounding and dh has already calmly told jr the rules what does he do? Turns to jr in front of the group, and says "jr, we were here rounding at 5. It's 5:30 now. Why are you late?". Is that humiliating? Putting someone on the spot for sleeping in and being irresponsible is not bullying. It's not public humiliation but some weanie pampered jr resident might feel "humiliated" and rightly so. Said Jr was never late again-- except for a few minutes. Dh never waited for him, and whenever said Jr showed up he had to run to catch the group and dh would stop everything and ask why he was late.

Dh was a very popular resident to work with-- always was highly praised above all the peers, but everyone knew where he stood and to get your ass out of bed bc he waited for no one. And you looked like a slacker showing up late. Because you are a slacker.

I think your husband handled it just fine. What he asked isn't degrading, it's direct.

[alison]

When dh was in med school he introduced himself to the attending/professor on his first day of a rotation, and the guy told him he didn't care who he was and to never talk to him unless he was asked something. The hierarchy where dh went to school is much more pronounced than in the US, but it was still pretty upsetting.

[peggyfromwastate]

In reference to VGirls comment

I know but I think some of these over sensitive types would call that "public humiliation". It is more effective for the truly lazy to humiliate them in front of their peers sometimes.

[ladymoreta]

I totally agree that your husband handled the situation appropriately, Peggy. And you're right that some people see any kind of criticism as bullying. I guess I can see where CP and others are coming from, saying that people need to get thicker skin. A complaint by the late person in that situation would be ridiculous. To me, the difference is the person doing the reprimanding maintaining control and acting with a measure of respect.

[GrayMatterWife]

I think your husband handled it just fine. What he asked isn't degrading, it's direct.

Oh, please...that was KIND! In NSG, if someone shows up late, they get thrown out.

[GrayMatterWife]

When dh was in med school he introduced himself to the attending/professor on his first day of a rotation, and the guy told him he didn't care who he was and to never talk to him unless he was asked something. The hierarchy where dh went to school is much more pronounced than in the US, but it was still pretty upsetting.

Reminds me of House, when he named his new fellows by number.

I once walked into a meeting at my law firm with several partners, one of whom was not in my department. It was in his office. I was on time. I had said nothing, and was approaching the chair to sit (and there were enough chairs...I wasn't stealing one from some partner). Anyhow, as I sat down, he looked at me and said, "Don't say anything. No one gives a shit what you think, assuming you do think."

Allllllrighteeee then. He was a dick, but whatever. He wasn't singling me out. He was an asshole to everyone.

[madeintaiwan]

And ALL this right here is why DH wants our kids to play sports and why I am so "hard" on my kids. I do not believe in berating and bullying as a means to get results. But, at the same time taking EVERY LITTLE THING so freaking personal is equally counterproductive AND annoying.

In addition, there are plenty of other professions that require 24 hour shifts... military, police, firemen, crab fishermen. Some people can function, some people can't. Some people are unmoved by being yelled at and publicly reprimanded, others fall apart and scramble looking for forgiveness when it has nothing to do with that. It is what it is. Be aware of your surroundings, know your audience and respond accordingly.

I was raised by a very strict unrelenting Chinese woman who didn't spend her time feeling sorry for herself, nor did she go around stating that life is unfair or unjust. And she definitely didn't waste time caring about the assholes in this world. She did what she had to do to get the job done and rarely ever complained about ANYTHING. There's a wall in your way, you can stand there and do nothing OR you find 2 or 3 ways to get around it. Clearly my views have been shaped by my upbringing. My father is retired from the AF, served in Vietnam, it's not like people in the military enjoy being yelled. I have never heard him complain or even claim that he was ever mistreated AND he grew up black in the Midwest during the civil rights. Last time I checked no one was forcing anyone to go to medical school or residency. If it's really that bad, find another place/profession.

Granted, I admit that I would have a very hard time working in a hostile work environment. However, I wouldn't just sit there and whine about it. Either change your situation or accept it for what it is and get through it.

[Chrisada]

Perfectly said MIT! The med. students complain that DH is too hard on him and I hear SAHM's complain ALL day about how hard their lives are. And their kids are all whiny and bratty and over privileged. I'm also very hard and strict on my children. No, bullying is not ok, but we also need to toughen up a little bit and stop taking everything so personal. And remember that most of us have CHOICE, which is a great privilege. I actually had a woman send me a message over FB saying she thought I was being mean to her and didn't like her because of a FB post on my page. I'm sure she's told everyone I'm a bully. The reality is I didn't care about her one way or the other. But she became fixated on me "not liking her." I'm sure mean things were said to DH in med school, but he's never brought it up. He's tough and it takes a whole lot to get to him.

[ladymoreta]

Allllllrighteeee then. He was a dick, but whatever. He wasn't singling me out. He was an asshole to everyone.

This is an interesting point. Do you think you would be able to do a better (or even an equivalent quality) job working for someone like him than you currently do for your judge?

[alison]

*peeling grapes like a mad woman in preparation for my next visit with madeintaiwan* YIKES! Just kidding. You know I love you.

[TulipsAndSunscreen]

Listen, I agree that whiny people suck and that kids need to take risks, be pushed, etc. All I'm saying is that verbal abuse isn't required to do that.

My dad called me worthless and stupid all the time growing up. I don't think I achieved more because of it, it didn't "get the best out of me". I achieved the same things and just dont like my dad.

[ladymoreta]

Yeah, I think we're all talking about apples and oranges. Bullying: bad; consequences for lack of professionalism: good.

[madeintaiwan]

And I think complaining about a situation [which is what is going on right now] and then doing nothing about it is a big waste of time [for the complainer and those who have to listen to the complainer]. Bullying happens. I got bullied. My kid got bullied. I did not sit around discussing the unfairness of the matter. I took action. And again being in medical school is a CHOICE. If you're being bullied, don't put up with it. Or put up with it. Just don't CHOSE to endure the bullying and then complain about it. That's my point. It's not apples and oranges. I'm not a big complainer. I just don't see the point in it. Especially complaining followed by inaction. It just fills the space with negativeness that it counterproductive to living a healthy life [emotionally and physically]. And perhaps I just can't stand complainers.

[madeintaiwan]

*peeling grapes like a mad woman in preparation for my next visit with madeintaiwan* YIKES! Just kidding. You know I love you.