With Matching in Mind...

[MrsSz]

I am putting this in the debates forum because I can see this turning in to one... Here's the story..

DH used to TA anatomy to first years before he was accepted to medical school. We became very close with that class, myself especially close to the girls. Fast Forward 3.5 years and they are in full swing of interview season and whatnot. One of the girls is a super smarty pants and is hoping to match into ENT. She has had quite a few interviews, and a few at some big name places. She's interviewed in NYC and love loved the program, the atmosphere and, if she could have, would have signed on the dotted line right there. She's finished the rest of her interviews and is in the ranking process. She and her boyfriend have been together 3ish years and has been talking about proposing for the better part of a a year now. I wouldn't believe it, but I sold the ring to him myself in july of last year. Who knows why he hasn't done it yet, but she does not know that he has it. He hates NYC. H.A.T.E.S. it. So he has told her he would not like to live in NY so this program she's after shouldn't even make the list. They have both lived within a 90 mile radius of home their whole lives and this would be a transition that he can't bear. He's pretty high up in his company, which is based in Florida (owned by a college buddy's dad who he interned with in college) but works remotely.

I, personally, think it is bullshit. She has worked her ass off to get where she is. Research, Master's Program, killer board score, and senior AOA. He expects her to not rank this program, based on how he feels about location and COL. (As an aside, they have no kids (dont want any for at least 4 years) and she has barely any medical school or graduate school debt). Maybe it is because DH lurves ENT so if he has the scores to get it when it comes around, and he's still interested, I think he should rank ANY program he would go to, regardless of where it is. Again, I am not currently in this situation and I'm completely aware I could be singing a different tune in two years, but after everything we will have been through to get to that point, I can't imagine holding him back like that...



What do you think?


FUN FACT: I actually kept my damn mouth shut when she asked me my opinion, and you KNOW how difficult that was for me.

[Meenah]

It sounds like he isn't going to propose until he finds out where she matches. I would ditch the boyfriend!!!

[Deebs]

She should go for the best program for her. If he's that opposed to where she ends up, he's not in it "for better and worse."


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[diggitydot]

I think everyone is different and each relationship has their own dynamic.

Thankfully, DH and I were on the same page when the time came time to trim the list. I can't say that I'd have been thrilled with some locations he could have chosen, but that wasn't an issue for us.

[WolfpackWife]

Hmm...this is interesting especially because I've been pretty vocal about definitely not liking/being unwilling to consider certain locations when it's our turn. Perhaps that will change as the next couple of years go by. As it stands, DH will be looking to match into IM which is, as I understand it, middle tier in terms of competition and not hugely worrisome. Maybe I would feel differently and more flexible if he wanted to do something more competitive/with less spots.

I agree with you, I think this is really selfish and inflexible behavior. Though they aren't married or even engaged, he likely knew what her aspirations were and continues to be inflexible about her residency options. That said, I give her a big kudos for still intending to rank (I'm assuming she does, unless I read you wrong?) this beloved program despite what he says. I'd be curious to know what she has said to you about how it makes her feel to know that her BF has completely squashed her dreams residency location. That also doesn't sound like someone who would make for great fiance material, since he's clearly not willing to support her *no matter what*, he's got some conditions under which he's obviously willing to revoke support.

Like you, I couldn't imagine holding DH back. That's not to say I don't/won't have strong opinions about where he ranks programs...but there is a difference, IMO. I am *willing* to go wherever necessary to better his career options in the future, I just may not do it happily. It sounds like he's taking this option completely off the table and it's NYC ENT residency or him - her pick. That's just immature and unrealistic.

[alotofyarn]

We had some serious discussions about locations. I wouldn't ever say absolutely no way to any location, but I would have (and did) requested that certain locations not be as high on the list because I would have been miserable. At the same time my hubby genuinely wanted my opinions on locations. We're married, and we make these kinds of decisions together, compromising when necessary.

I'd say if they're both set on their own way, either they need to be OK with some long distance or they need to rethink the whole marriage thing.

[SuzySunshine]

He's has the ring for a year and hasn't used it? Something is holding him back, if I were her I'd rank as I wanted and hope he stuck around. If he's already working remotely what difference does it make where they live?

[SoonerTexan]

I disagree a bit.

If they are really serious about marriage, I think there needs to be some give and take here. If he really hates it that much, then yes, I think it should be a factor she needs to consider. It's 4 (5?) years of his life too.

I also think it would be unreasonable for him to expect him to not rank a program at all, especially in something that competitive. Rank it lower, but not ranking is silly. Honestly, in most cases I think not ranking is silly unless you would truly rather not match than be at that program. I don't want to be at our bottom 2, but I'd rather my husband match.

For better or worse doesn't mean one party gets to call the shots completely.

ETA: Working remotely isn't always quite so clear cut. I'm finding that out myself as I explore options. They might care where, especially if there are local connections.

[Urowife]

He's has the ring for a year and hasn't used it? Something is holding him back, if I were her I'd rank as I wanted and hope he stuck around. If he's already working remotely what difference does it make where they live?

This!

[Mrs. MD, Esq.]

With Matching in Mind...

I moved to a place I didn't love and essentially gave up my career and connections because DH loved a specific program (ironic, given what happened next), but we made that decision together...I don't know that I would have been okay if DH had made a unilateral decision (but we were engaged and getting married right before intern year).

That being said, I never would have said absolutely not to anywhere...ESPECIALLY if DH felt so strongly about the program.

[Auspicious]

Yikes, that one is a debate right within my own head!

I love NYC (obviously, lived there for 8 adult years) but I do think it's a very different lifestyle than even other big American cities, and I wouldn't take it lightly asking someone else to live there when they didn't want to. To me, it's not like other locations and it IS a lot to ask.

But if he wants her to shape her life around him, then he needs to commit! Holding on to the ring?? What's the deal?? It is possible to hesitate to propose because you have issues surrounding marriage and not because you fear you don't have the right woman, though. She's got to drag out of him what's going on, and romance be damned.

They need to have some long and frank conversations. It's rough because I think ten years from now she could be kicking herself about giving up the opportunity OR giving up the relationship. They've got to hash that out--what's important and why and how important.

I'm leaning toward she needs to rank NYC where she wants, but I wouldn't do it without finding out what's going on with him first.

[Vishenka69]

Back in the day, I was actually in the camp "I refuse to move to XYZ." Granted DH still proposed, knowing how I felt. He wasn't terribly happy about my ultimatum but I didn't think it was fair to drag me to some remote location and then leave me to fetch for myself for 4 years. We lived in NYC and there were several dozen programs within an hour drive, his specialty wasn't very competitive back then. He wasn't doing any super duper research and I just didn't see a difference between the programs nearby and those that are far. The program he ended up in wasn't exceptionally good but he did get great training and now works with docs from various more competitive programs. So honestly, I still don't understand why he needed to apply or go to some fancy shmancy program/hospital to essentially end up in the same place.

Programs will always put their best foot forward during the interview process. She might have been smitten with some aspect of the program but has she considered the implications of living in NYC or uprooting her SO? Unless there are no programs near their current location and/or some other place he's more accepting of, I don't' understand her need to rank this particular place in the top 10. Other than her liking it, what makes it so much better than others?

[Vanquisher]

I disagree a bit.

If they are really serious about marriage, I think there needs to be some give and take here. If he really hates it that much, then yes, I think it should be a factor she needs to consider. It's 4 (5?) years of his life too.

I also think it would be unreasonable for him to expect him to not rank a program at all, especially in something that competitive. Rank it lower, but not ranking is silly. Honestly, in most cases I think not ranking is silly unless you would truly rather not match than be at that program. I don't want to be at our bottom 2, but I'd rather my husband match.

For better or worse doesn't mean one party gets to call the shots completely.

ETA: Working remotely isn't always quite so clear cut. I'm finding that out myself as I explore options. They might care where, especially if there are local connections.

ITA! I would be beyond pissed if my feelings weren't taken into account as much as DHs on a rank list. We are a partnership. That said, we were on the same page.

[SuzySunshine]

He needs to tell her he's ready to propose if he wants his feelings taken into consideration.

Its not the match but when DH and I took jobs/med school after college we took what we wanted where we wanted and truly believed that if we were meant to be together everything would work out. When he moved to CA I was SHOCKED to say the least, not to mention it was last minute but we never figured that would actually happen. So he went and when I realized I'd had enough of the long distance I found a job, moved myself and got an apartment there. We continued to work on us and got married 2 1/2 years later (engaged about 18 months later). He and I knew and we just knew it would work out - our parents were skeptical, my parents thought if it works, great - his parents thought great, he's moving to CA we're rid of her - HAH!

My point is he needs to tell her that he's ready to propose and then they need to decide what to do but if he's not ready to tell her he's ready to propose or to just do it already then its her choice, not his.

[poky]

Hm.

1) Ranking something #1 doesn't mean you'll get to go there.
2) How does he know he'll hate NYC? Has he lived there before? Just visited? Is he unwilling to just deal for a few years for the woman he wants to marry? Would he feel differently if he got a promise of final say for first "real job" location?
3) He's working remotely; it's not like he'd be having to leave that behind, right?
4) IF he's holding off on proposing until she submits her rank list and/or matches, that seems...I dunno. Is he really serious about her or not?
5) For that matter, why is she waiting for him to propose, rather than proposing herself?
6) Would he be OK with having NYC ranked #2, and she could rank her second choice #1 - she'd still have a decent chance of matching in NYC, and if not, at least she got her second choice? Would she resent him forever if she did this and matched at #1 (which was really her #2), and never knew if she would have matched in NYC? Or does she love him enough to risk that?

Unlike having kids, I think compromise on this IS possible (see #2 and #6), and who knows? There's a decent chance she may match at her #6 anyway, and all this angst will have been for nothing, right?