Your insight please?

[Vanquisher]

Uh....DUDE...What about your exotic trip to Central MN? You know THAT was much more exciting than Calgary. Don't you remember how the police blocked off our neighborhood when I was trying to bring the pizza home and you got to watch me from the porch? Silly you ... Calgary...please! LOL

True, true. And, the culture there is...there are no words.

I've had to borrow money from my kids more than I would like to admit, and I have rolled pennies for gas and milk. Living the dream.

[PrincessFiona]

True, true. And, the culture there is...there are no words.
.

What....our parade (led by the middle school band) didn't bowl you over?

LOL

Kris

[v-girl]

I've had to borrow money from my kids more than I would like to admit, and I have rolled pennies for gas and milk. Living the dream.

We're still waiting for a paycheck. We have bought Wal-mart brand taco shells, bread and bran cereal. Oh, and the big yellow package of Oscar Meyer sandwich meat. My mom was happy to see that I remembered how to feed a family while broke.

[rainbabies]

One of my fav moments was asking my friend to borrow five bucks. Twice. To pay for an antibiotic for my kids. Good times. Or asking the devil, my MIL, for money so our electric would stay on. And thanks to a few people here, my kids had warm clothes.
If we can't vent here, why bother being a member.

[v-girl]

We only borrow from the in-laws when times are desperate (and if it's more than my mom can lend us). MIL wanted to draw up a contract for DH's Step III money that he borrowed. When it came time for the license, we borrowed from his aunt (her younger sister) instead.

[peggyfromwastate]

I guess my problem is that at the end of the road, you should have $ stability, you should not have to worry about little things, you should have an emergency fund... But... It's just a long road, and I'm not convinced that any amount of money is worth it. Just keeping it real. My brothers are engineers and out of college had jobs, worked their way up, etc. My sister has a sociology degree and she is working a management level job. None of them had to do the med school plus training years. All of them are making more $$ while we are in this whole medical journey. I can't work practically with all the kids, at least not to the point where we'd be meaningfully ahead of the game. We'll have 11 years where we are just spinning our wheels, med school and residency plus fellowship. While I don't think it's selfish to want some wealth at the end of the journey, I think it's a little bit missing the point. But if it makes her feel better, if that's what she needs to get through it, more power to her.

So, in honesty she shouldn't expect to be able to splurge a lot. Own a house? Yep, she can expect that. Leather seats? Depends. Really it does.

IMHO, medicine sucks. The journey sucks. DH loves surgery and complains about clinic to the point that I want to strangle him. When he's actually where I can physically reach him in order to strangle him, which he's not, because he's in Houston because he needs to train there for 4 months. And at the end of the rainbow, the doctor still has to work long hours. The gov't takes more and more of the check, and reimburses less and less for the work.

I just don't know.

Is there an attending wife out there who really thinks the $ is worth it? Anyone here??

My dad these last 3 or 4 years has been making boatloads of money. He was in EM during what he called the *golden years* too. He's been in medicine, earning a salary for 30+ years. The skinny years of medical school and residency are a distant memory to him. He's made plenty, enough to lose 250K on bad stock investments and have it be aggravating, but not earth-shattering. They have their dream house, they have their leather seats in their cars, they drop 5 figure checks on charities. All that crap.

My mom has a lot of bitterness... And as kids, my friends all thought he had a mistress. I dont' remember him going to volleyball games, track meets, nothing. I don't remember him there ever.

So, yes, I have issues, and I have a different perspective. I haven't met anyone who's been through this who actually felt the paycheck at the end was worth all of it. The lifestyle, the phone calls, the stress of the work...

Knowing all that, I married DH, partly because he wasn't a Dr yet, but I knew that was what he wanted and where he'd end up. But, I have never had any illusion that one day the paycheck will be worth the journey. I am soooo certain I will never feel so much pride in my dh and what an awesome Dr he is that it's all worth it. I hope the $ makes it all a little less bitter eventually, but I doubt it will. That's also partly why we did military medicine. Lifestyle, baby. That's why he's doing a fellowship. Lifestyle... All lifestyle... And I'm not talking $, but I'm talking time with him, day to day, mundane.

I don't want what my mom has. She purposefully lookis for trips across the world bc they can spend all that time on the airplane catching up on the last 6 months of their lives. Not this thing she does where she drives him to work so he can dictate when he goes to the clinics that are 1 hr away from his house-- she drives so that he can dictate and so that she can physically BE with him in the same car. And they are in the golden years- late 60s. Retirement on the beach anyone?

Now I am SUPER curious if anyone here really thinks the $$ and the *job satisfaction* their SO's get from being a Dr is really, truly worth it... Or would they have preferred being an engineer or something, working up the system, maybe eventually making 100K+ a year...

[Vanquisher]

I know that it will never be worth it for me, but it does help to think of dual ovens, granite countertops, and sipping champagne on the banks of the Seine.

[peggyfromwastate]

and I hope you get all that Heidi. You have been through hell.

[diggitydot]

No. It isn't always about ass whoopins and tough love.

I agree. It isn't always about that. But if needed, I have no problem with someone doing it to me. Which was my point. When you put opinions out on these here interweb tubes, other people can see them and I would hope my iMSN peeps would call me out if I was being a giant dumbass.

I don't think there is a place really to hand someone their ass and claim silliness when a person wonders out loud what it will be like to have some of the luxuries in life...med spouse or not...if they are struggling to make ends meet and are doing it all alone while their spouse is training for a career, then hell ya they should be able to think about the future too. It is human nature to want to improve your lot in life and going to medical school IS one way to do it, whether people want to hear that or not.

I apparently wasn't particularly clear. I want people to call me on my silliness and hand me my ass, if necessary. By all means, people should dream away. But if you put it out where others can read it and it sounds wonky to them, yeah -- they're gonna comment. Particularly when someone specifically asks for comments or insight. I don't have a problem with her (or anyone) dreaming and never implied that I did.

I love my spouse is an unfair comeback...I'm sure this woman loves her husband too.

Yes and no. I see your point, however, I don't completely agree. (Mostly I agree, but not 100%.) Not that I think the blogger doesn't love her DH. I'm sure she does. Just that there are a LOT of people who marry for what they perceive to be future benefits. They're not the norm, but they do exist. My DH's first wife was one. She pointedly told him once that the only reason she married him was because he was planning on becoming a doctor. Yes, these people exist, but no...not the norm.

Let's turn this puppy around. Does your spouse love you enough NOT to do the malignant residency/fellowship or are they pursuing their passions no matter what for their own selfish gain/greater monetary gain.

Kinda apples and oranges. My DH is in family medicine. Nothing glam or materialistic about rural family practice unless you're a little too into 4-H county fairs. And yes, his career choices were based on what would be best for us as a family and not necessarily because he wanted the big bucks in Hickville, USA. He ranked his residency #1 not because they're prestigious (remember, it's FM), but because it was in a decent area with good schools and he could earn a decent enough wage to support a family of 5 while still learning and getting the quality training he was seeking.

We are exceedingly fortunate, but I don't delude myself for a moment. I know that there are crapfests out there that suck balls. We're are just lucky enough to have avoided a lot of it. So, kinda not a fair comparison to others who are smack in the middle of Hell.

I will personally be high-fiving everyone here as they finish training and I'll be celebrating your new homes with you without a trace of tough love.

Hells yes. I will, too.

Look, I don't take a huge issue with the blogger and don't understand some of the vitriol aimed at her, either. The only negative thing I can say specifically to her writing is that she sounds a little immature. But that could have more to do with her wording choices than her behavior or thought processes.

...I know that when I was down and out, and couting coins to put gas in my car, the last thing I'd need or want is my ass handed to me.

Again, I'm not saying that anyone else needs their asses handed to them. I was referring to me if I needed it, that I'm OK with it.

If we can't vent here, why bother being a member.

Therein lies the rub. The blogger wasn't venting here. We were asked to give insight on someone's blog whom we know nothing about and don't have any kind of relationship with. We don't know her back story and have only the words of a single blog to suss out her meaning. We don't know if she's enduring a hellish experience or if it's a cake walk. People can only give opinions based on the info they have and that was pretty limited. I don't blame anyone for their opinion of the writer, whether I agree with their assessment or not.

[MarissaNicole]

I just don't see where the blogger sounded selfish. She sounds sad. Like, "are we going to make it?" and "is there anything to look forward to?"
I know we've been there more times than I'd care to admit. And I know that when I was down and out, and couting coins to put gas in my car, the last thing I'd need or want is my ass handed to me.

This.

I don't think ANY of our spouses are in this for money... just like we aren't married to our spouses because they are doctors. They are in it because they can't see themselves being anything other than doctors, just like we trudge through struggles in the marriage because we cannot see ourselves being with anyone else.

[ides]

Your insight please?

I think maybe the blogger is mistaking attendinghood for winning the megga millions jackpot. She seems a bit clueless & I don't get her "I'm not a sterotype but I can't wait to be one" one that rarely exists these days with loans, insurance, & other money sucks. Medicine is not what it used to be.

Honestly we're just hoping to be able to live somewhat comfortably. We have no illusions of grandure, but I do dream off & on about owning a home & having some money set aside for old age.

[SuzySunshine]

Wow - I seem to have missed a very busy 4 days!

I do think the blogger was using some things as an illustration however with that said I do know post-training docs, two personally, who make 3/4 million dollars a year. One friend that finished last year said they would comfortably be able to live off of 15% of their salary. 15%!!! Really? We won't make anywhere near that because DH will do academics but they do exist.

I think if you need to look forward to things like that during training to get you through it there is nothing wrong with that but if you are going to be disappointed after training because its NOT all champagne and orgasms then you have issues. We're still in training but because we're in year 7 we have a lot of friends that are done and the ones that don't make it are the ones who think things are just going to magically change on July 1st of your first REAL job.

But like anything on the internet everything is about how you interpret it and you can never really know what someone meant as they were typing.

[GrayMatterWife]

[Never mind.]

[GrayMatterWife]

I know that it will never be worth it for me, but it does help to think of dual ovens, granite countertops, and sipping champagne on the banks of the Seine.

with Sven?

[Flynn]

I don't have a whole lot to add other than some phrases the blogger used were buttons for me (I know, my issue not hers) but I was shaking my head to agree as well.

I don't think anything is worth it unless you are healthy enough to enjoy the fruits of your labor and stress on the other end. And YES this includes saving lives. Some people find a good place after training and some do not. Let's not kid ourselves how high the divorce rate is nationally -- let alone in medicine.

There are no free lunches in any profession in this economy and medicine is no exception. There is essentially a cap on what new docs can make these days. In CT surg. docs who are 10 years Dh's senior made millions before compensation went down. Out of the people I'm thinking of (8) all but one are on a second or third spouse (one doc is a woman) and all have talked openly about DH managing his money because "it's not like it used to be." That being said I have a VERY (very) good life.

We are four years out of training though and I STILL have moments when I am so thankful for where we are in one moment, guilty the next, and pissed when comments casually thrown my way hint that my life is charmed and easy. I'm almost comfortable in my own shoes post training. Almost. DH and I are in a good place 97% of the time. The other 3% I just crack my knuckles, take a deep breath and go through the process of pulling his head out of his ass. I've had a LOT of practice so it doesn't take as long as it used to. I love my husband of course but training taught me that unconditional love is more of a catch phrase than an actual state of being -- for me.

When I met DH as a med student I thought it was cool that he wanted to do something that would force him to think and grow on a daily basis and wasn't just pushing papers or playing with other people's money. He had a goal and I was fine with that at the time. I was SOOOO clueless.

I've enjoyed reading this thread and as usual you all have forced me to really THINK. I love this site for so many reasons but that's my #1 reason today.