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General Surgery

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  • #31
    Peggy,

    Huge hugs. Marriage and parenting is NOT for the faint of heart. Add a cross country move, a very demanding job, some health issues, the sale of a house, and voila, you have the perfect storm. Don't berate yourself for feeling less than enthusiastic about the Dawktor's amazing, prestigious fellowship when your kids are suffering. I hear you loud and clear.

    Don't berate yourself for offering an honest opinion. Nobody talked more smack about GS than me. Over time, I have come to realize that our route was not typical, then or now. Some people have absolutely awful experiences, others have demanding but workable situations during GS residencies. My own situation colored my response to the "how bad is general surgery?" question that pops up on this board about once a quarter.

    Honestly, GS is just another demanding job. If that is the only stressor in the family, you'll be o.k. This is life, not heaven. Put on your big girl panties and get on with it. For illustrative purposes, there is a urology spouse on this board who had a decent go during training but she is the first to admit that she lived in her home town near parents and her community. Her program wasn't overly malignant. The family didn't have to move. She had the financial resources to stay home with her kids. I'm sure everyday wasn't lollipops and sunshine, but she had a decent experience. There are several n/s spouses who were very satisfied with their spouse's training. There really are good stories out there.

    IMHO, the problem with GS is that it hogs up all the resources of the family just to cope with the demands of living with the resident. As countless posters on this board have found out, if additional normal life stressors come into play, GS is unforgiving and relentless. The surgeon has to work all but four weeks a year to be board eligible. If s/he doesn't show up to work, it is a BFD. I mean a huge, big effing deal with ramifications. If you have something like bed rest, a funeral of a close relative to attend, marital discord, financial stressors, health issues, a move, excetera, your spouse may have very little leeway to help you out significantly. This can wreak havoc on the marriage. Like anything in life, YMMV. I will tell you that most of us are more capable of dealing with all of these things than we ever realized.

    There I have broken my own rule and have come back YET AGAIN to talk about GS residency. (Where is that beating the dead horse icon?) There really are vocal advocates on both sides of this question and the issue has caused many heated debates and hurt feelings on this board. EAch side feels like the other invalidates their experience and/or is prone to histrionics or a lack of empathy. To be lawyerly about it, each case turns on its own merits.

    ETA: I just refuse to allow anyone to sit in the "surgery training can suck" cave alone, not on my watch.
    Last edited by houseelf; 12-10-2012, 09:23 AM.
    In my dreams I run with the Kenyans.

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    • #32
      IMHO, ortho sucks balls. My husband loves what he does, blah, blah, blah. BUT, I wish he had taken a different path. It's just a job, after all. DHs schedule varies a lot, but he works more than either of us expected. This is our life now and forever. Blah. Down with surgery!!!
      Heidi, PA-S1 - wife to an orthopaedic surgeon, mom to Ryan, 17, and Alexia, 11.


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      • #33
        Houseelf put it nicely. The problem with GS imo is the culture. It's a malagnet culture that believes in abuse. Some programs are better than others and the bad ones are career threatening bad. You can't sniff out the bad ones either. They are great liars and you generally don't know until you are in and then its too late to get out unless you want to leave surgery all together. Dh was in one of the really abusive programs where they witch hunt residents regularly and dangle your career in front of you by a string until the very end. To say that the pressure and stress was over the top is an understatement. We only stayed as Dh couldnt see himself in any other area of medicine. In fifth year however he heard about PM&R (didn't know about this field before) and wished he had gone that route. We didn't make it out undamaged but we did make it to the career Dh wanted and are trying to heal ourselves. I fear some of the damage is permanent but we will see what happens with time. Good luck with the decision!
        Wife to Hand Surgeon just out of training, mom to two lovely kittys and little boy, O, born in Sept 08.

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        • #34
          Baby posted will delete later
          Married to a newly minted Pediatric Rad, momma to a sweet girl and a bunch of (mostly) cute boy monsters.



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          • #35
            To add a little hope, the darkest day of life as an attending feels like the Rose Bowl parade compared to almost any day in training. For us, the post training lifestyle definitely is very good. Sure, there are politics, publishing demands, politics, travel, politics, and call, but what job doesn't have a bit of a suck factor. That is why they pay you. Otherwise, it would be call a hobby. Really, surgical life is pretty decent on this side of things.
            In my dreams I run with the Kenyans.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by ides View Post
              Houseelf put it nicely. The problem with GS imo is the culture. It's a malagnet culture that believes in abuse. Some programs are better than others and the bad ones are career threatening bad. You can't sniff out the bad ones either. They are great liars and you generally don't know until you are in and then its too late to get out unless you want to leave surgery all together. Dh was in one of the really abusive programs where they witch hunt residents regularly and dangle your career in front of you by a string until the very end. To say that the pressure and stress was over the top is an understatement. We only stayed as Dh couldnt see himself in any other area of medicine. In fifth year however he heard about PM&R (didn't know about this field before) and wished he had gone that route. We didn't make it out undamaged but we did make it to the career Dh wanted and are trying to heal ourselves. I fear some of the damage is permanent but we will see what happens with time. Good luck with the decision!
              So much WORD here.

              GS residency sucks and from what I know the money isn't all that great NOR are the hours when you are done. That sounds like a big ball of sucktitude from where I sit.
              Flynn

              Wife to post training CT surgeon; mother of three kids ages 17, 15, and 11.

              “It is our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities.” —Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets " Albus Dumbledore

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              • #37
                Originally posted by houseelf View Post
                Really, surgical life is pretty decent on this side of things.
                Same here for us.
                Married to a peds surgeon attending

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by TulipsAndSunscreen View Post
                  Plus, Uro will hopefully eventually be a better lifestyle.
                  Uro is a fantastic lifestyle, promise!! Hang in there.
                  Married to a peds surgeon attending

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by civilspouse View Post
                    I have come to terms with the fact that I will never be his #1 priority (well most days I'm ok with it).
                    It doesn't have to be this way. My DH is the top producing surgeon in his entire hospital system, but he still makes our children and I his #1 priority. I wouldn't be with him if he didn't.
                    Married to a peds surgeon attending

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by peggyfromwastate View Post
                      I just want to address the personality disorder of narcissism that I believe must be more prevalent in surgery than other areas. It must be. It's kind if a necessary trait for them to do what they do...)
                      I have to respectfully disagree. Not all surgeons have to be narcissistic. My DH is the most humble man I've ever met; you'd never know he's a surgeon unless you asked him directly. And even then he's probably just say: "I work with children and love what I do."
                      Married to a peds surgeon attending

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                      • #41
                        Thanks everyone, this has been really helpful. DH read all of your replies and I think he has decided that surgery really is the way he wants to go. I start a number of conversations with him by saying "On my forums....". I think he now understands how awesome you guys are and what a great resource this is. He was telling me last night how I should start picking your brains on other items
                        Wife of Anesthesiology Resident

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                        • #42
                          We're not soft spoken around here, that's for sure
                          Jen
                          Wife of a PGY-4 orthopod, momma to 2 DDs, caretaker of a retired race-dog, Hawkeye!


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                          • #43
                            I'm glad we could be helpful!
                            Wife to Hand Surgeon just out of training, mom to two lovely kittys and little boy, O, born in Sept 08.

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by ides View Post
                              I'm glad we could be helpful!
                              Lol and not just meddling and opinionated!!
                              Kris

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                              • #45
                                I second the fact that the MD/PhD road can be hell by itself so hats off to civilspouse's hubby for getting it done early. My wonderful hubby took 12 years to finish his MD/PhD! He took one year off after the birth of our daughter to bond with her and help me, but the rest of the time was him being lazy and having a program pay him to do more research instead of finish his degree. When he started talking about orthopedic surgery I thought I was going to lose it. We settled on the supposedly easy family medicine with the thoughts that it may not pay as well, but he would finally get to live some life. He is already 36 in his last year of residency. Life does not stop...

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