Extremely frustrated with my husband regarding academics...

[diggitydot]

One other thing-- your dh will not be able to sleep 6 hours a night. That's a luxury. He needs to adjust to around 4.5-5 hours. It sucks, it's not healthy, but I don't know many residents who get more sleep than that.

Yup, this. DH is lucky to get a solid 6. Granted, he's a fellow and the work hour rules don't apply to fellows, but still -- sleep is a premium, even during med school.

So, we just had lunch together and I feel it was a productive conversation. This is going to be a bit of a blow-by-blow, so I'm sorry if that style bothers some posters.

First, we talked about his grades and his trending throughout the semester. He did really horribly at first in all of his classes because he refused to study any way other than flashcards. (He had over 1500 electronic flash cards for his first test. Flash cards *was going to work*!! But then it didn't.) After he failed his first tests, he reevaluated that and picked up different study techniques. Then histo improved and gross improved, and steadily improved throughout the semester. Biochem got better, but then got worse. Then he got in a study group. He improved 30 points from one test to the next and the only thing he changed was the study group. He explains his mediocre performance on his finals by saying that they were comprehensive. He says he never fully went back and learned the stuff at the beginning of the semester that he did terribly on, so that came back to bite him on his finals. Regardless, since study groups seem to be working so well for him, I asked him why he wasn't in more study groups with his other two classes. I explained that he's a smart man and for the time he's putting in, he should be making A's, not B's and C's. I said that if B's and C's were the best that he could do, then that was fine with me, but that he knows and I know that B's and C's aren't the best that he can do. He agreed. But, he said that he doesn't like study groups. So I asked "Why?" and he said, There's too many people.

So we just went into that head on. I told him a lot of the things that were said here on this thread. I said, You can't practice medicine in a coccoon. He said, Yes, I can. There are plenty of specialties were you can be by yourself- like pathology or radiology, for instance. I said, no, even then you're going to have to work with people in a team, and that's the way it's going to be for your entire career. Medicine is all about teamwork. He said, Yeah, but they'll be people I know. I said, No they won't. You don't have the luxury of getting to know all of the people on your team for 3 months prior to working with them. That's not reality. He conceded this point.

Then I said, And what about your clinical rotations? You're going to have to be able to be social with people. Do you think an attending is going to give you a good evaluation if you never talk? He said, if I were an attending, I would give someone who was quiet a much better grade than someone who couldn't shut their mouth. I said, Not everyone thinks like you. Plus there is a wide space between someone who never talks and someone who talks all of the time. Networking matters. You're going to have to learn to network and that involves talking to people you don't know about things you might not really want to talk about! (He hates small talk with a passion and feels that he's degrading himself when he engages in what he calls "fake socializing". He hates talking about the weather, sports, all of it- which really is the crux of the problem.) He said, I don't think it should be that way. I shouldn't have to network. My clinical performance should stand for itself. I said, But that's not the world we live in. People skills matter. He said, I have people skills. I worked as an engineer for years. I had to talk to people on the phone all of the time. I shared an office building with people. I said, When you were an engineer, you stayed in your office and only communicated to people through email and telephone. That doesn't count as people skills. You only have people skills with people you know. He conceded that point.

He countered with, You are saying you hate who I am, you don't like my character traits. To which I said, I don't want to change who you are. I like who you are. I just want you to be able to fake it. Developing social skills is a tool that you can use when you need it. Otherwise, you are limiting yourself. Then I said, What if you were a doctor and the only tool you had to diagnose people with was a stethoscope? Someone comes in, their ear hurts and all you have is a stethoscope. You need different tools in your toolbag to pull out when you need them. You have to adapt to different situations based on what's going on. I don't want you to change who you are, I just want you to be able to fake it when you need to. It's a skill you can learn to use when it's warranted. For some reason, that seemed to turn on a lightbulb in his head and he seemed to get it. It was like you could see on his face him thinking, "Yes, tools. I need more tools. More tools can only be good." And then he said I was right. (And it seemed like a sincere "You're right", not a "Ok, fine, you're right, can we please talk about something else now?!")

This may not seem like progress to many, but this really is a significant breakthrough. This is the first time I've gotten him to admit that he needs to learn to work with people he doesn't know in social situations. I really feel that going into next semester, he will probably utilize study groups more. I can only see this as improving his grades. Now, though, I need to work on getting him in more social situations so he can practice. He will be very skeptical. It's a process.

Anyway, I really appreciate all of the help you all have given me. The perspective is invaluable.

[Pollyanna]

Sounds like a great conversation. You will have lots of them through this process so I am glad he is open to listening. It might be important to point out to him that developing better people skills will directly impact his family when it comes to matching into a residency and potentially even a location where you want to live. You're doing great!

[diggitydot]

Woo hoo for breakthroughs!!

[MissCrabette]

I am so impressed by how you countered all of his responses. Well done!

I had to laugh at his dream that he could practice medicine all by his lonesome self. Maybe one day in the very distant future when he is an attending, and even that's unlikely. In the meantime, he'll have to deal with people all through clinicals and residency. At my DH's program, they have 4-week rotations with different interns, seniors, attendings, nurses, social workers, etc. It's a whirlwind sometimes.

One thing all docs should learn sooner than later is that medicine is crazy political. Crazy. In no other profession does "who you trained with" or who will write you a letter matter decades down the road. It all matters.

[HeyMeganZ]

Seriously, I'm impressed with you too - congrats! It's not always easy talking to your medical SO about things, because no matter how much they love and respect you sometimes they can come back with, well you just don't understand, or you don't know how it is....the fact that you were able to beautifully counter with fantastic examples, hats off to you! So glad you had a really productive conversation.

Even if you don't like being around people...study groups can be a great way to digest key points of information that span the entire year, and they get you to think about things you may not have considered looking over again. You're right - he should look at them like a tool, use them!

[HouseofWool]

I completely get it. My ex was in path and they most certainly did not work in a bubble. It was just as political as any other specialty.

The fact that he jumped from you giving honest feedback to him interpreting that as "you hate me" is a bit scary to me. To me (without knowing either of you) as an incredible amount of insecurity.

[Thirteen]

One thing all docs should learn sooner than later is that medicine is crazy political. Crazy. In no other profession does "who you trained with" or who will write you a letter matter decades down the road. It all matters.

This!

"Fake it til you make it" could be really helpful. DH is actually a true introvert, and socializing/interacting with people all day just sucks the life out of him. But, he loves his career more than the notion of quiet. That's the key.
Perhaps you can provide that "safe space" for yours? As in, "You can always come home, and be you, and recharge. If you love medicine, you have to be extroverted outside the home. In here, you can recharge and breathe." He doesn't have to change who he is at the core, but he will need to adapt to this new way of working.

Sounds like a GREAT conversation! Gear up, because these topics just get revisited over and over and over again throughout training. You can do it!


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[diggitydot]

Dude, I'm a complete extrovert and those forced social situations that include small talk bullshit with people I'll most likely never see again drive me insane, too. I can only imagine the amount of suckitude created for introverts.

[Deebs]

As I'm reading through the posts, while I'm so impressed with how you're handling this, I'm wondering why your DH wanted to go into medicine. It seems as if he's chasing Rads or Path and possibly in it "for the money." If that's the case, I honestly think you should cut your losses with the debt you've already incurred and get out. He won't make it through if that's his driving force. And, he'll probably be very disappointed with the money he ends up with. If he has a passion for medicine, helping people, etc, that is what will get him through school, applications, residency, etc, but I really think to get through all of it you have to have a great internal drive and determination that reflects this as the only choice that will make him happy.

I completely get it. My ex was in path and they most certainly did not work in a bubble. It was just as political as any other specialty.

The fact that he jumped from you giving honest feedback to him interpreting that as "you hate me" is a bit scary to me. To me (without knowing either of you) as an incredible amount of insecurity.

That was his attempt to get me to stop talking about it. And the tone wasn't a depressed "OMG you hate me! Life is over!" it was more of a pseudo-shocked, clutch-the-pearls tone of "So you hate me! You think I"m a terrible person!" He was fighting a smirk when he said it. He can be very melodramatic with a touch of self-deprecation, but on the inside he's usually pretty sure of himself.

As I'm reading through the posts, while I'm so impressed with how you're handling this, I'm wondering why your DH wanted to go into medicine. It seems as if he's chasing Rads or Path and possibly in it "for the money." If that's the case, I honestly think you should cut your losses with the debt you've already incurred and get out. He won't make it through if that's his driving force. And, he'll probably be very disappointed with the money he ends up with. If he has a passion for medicine, helping people, etc, that is what will get him through school, applications, residency, etc, but I really think to get through all of it you have to have a great internal drive and determination that reflects this as the only choice that will make him happy.

Hmm...Are pathologists top wage earners? If so, I had no idea. I know you don't have to take my word on this, but he's really not in it for the money. He's been poor his whole life (well, growing up, not once he got out of college) and is not a very material person. He wants to provide our kids with a good life, but he knows he could have done that as an engineer.

[SoonerTexan]

I can see what you mean...sounds like he would REALLY like and do well in research...thank goodness he didn't find MDPhd for your sake!

You sound like a very smart woman...you're going to fit in well around here

[GrayMatterWife]

In no other profession does "who you trained with" or who will write you a letter matter decades down the road. It all matters.

Actually, that's a LOT like the law. (1) where did you go to law school? (2) did you make law review? and (3) did you do a judicial clerkship? You could be nine thousand years out of law school, and those are the three questions you'll get asked. Those define a lot of your options if you want to go into academics, go to a white glove firm, become a judge, or work high-up in the executive branch.

Politics, politics, politics. Gotta play the game.